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2016-17 4A Redistricting...

screwloose

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Sep 27, 2002
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I know we had a big pow-wow on this subject during the offseason, but this one's coming to an end. I thought maybe I'd create a spreadsheet with everybody's wins since 2007. This way we have a general idea of how the state would tier group everybody as a way of divvying them up again before next year.

I marked the current bottom six in enrollment, as a ways of tossing them out, if the state did decide to create a new 5A with just the top 40 schools, instead of the 700 benchmark used now.

Enjoy.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OGKhXMONh5qhQ8GR_1LZI4nWHVWl9yQTPUj-tO5O61U/edit#gid=0
 
The word I've heard (hey, that rhymes!) is that the state might go to the top 48 for 4A, scrapping the BEDS number. That would move up Western Dubuque and Norwalk (at least until the new Iowa City school gets going). Then the coaches want more district games, so they'd go to six 8-team districts. Playoff qualifiers would be the top two in each district plus 4 wild cards.

With 8-team districts, seems like geography would be a big issue for setting them up.

The other classes (except for A and 8-player) would still be 56, with seven 8-team districts and two wild cards.
 
KidSilverhair (like "oranges", nothing rhymes with your name, so I can't follow the pattern), if they scrap the BEDS numbers, what would be the criteria for being "top 48"? If not size, then how do you get moved into 4A? Also, West Dubuque talks like they are going to get moved down in basketball. Seems a little contradictory. I know lots of schools play different classes, but football is such a clear numbers game, if West Dubuque can't justify the numbers for basketball, why football?
 
I actually made a post about the next six teams, currently not in 4A by BEDS. Western Dubuque has trended upward significantly the last two years(from 577 to 654). Other than Norwalk and Newton, nobody else is barely within 100 on that BEDS chart. I would think they would be pretty secure in 4A, if the state did, in fact, go to a straight 48. The question would be whether Norwalk or Newton would get the last spot, between incoming freshman classes and graduating senior classes. Geographically, it wouldn't be much of an issue between those two.
 
Norwalk is trending up while Newton is trending down, so it will be Norwalk and from my understanding they have already been told such. DCG will be the next one to be closing in on top 48 in next few 2-3 years.
 
KidSilverhair (like "oranges", nothing rhymes with your name, so I can't follow the pattern), if they scrap the BEDS numbers, what would be the criteria for being "top 48"? If not size, then how do you get moved into 4A? Also, West Dubuque talks like they are going to get moved down in basketball. Seems a little contradictory. I know lots of schools play different classes, but football is such a clear numbers game, if West Dubuque can't justify the numbers for basketball, why football?

By top 48, they mean the highest 48 schools ranked by BEDS numbers. That's actually how they do classes in other sports - X number of teams in 4A, the next X number in 3A, etc. The arbitrary 700 number cutoff was only used for football, and that's why there's been fewer than 48 teams in 4A for football for the past several years.

It's my understanding this move is coming from the coaches. This is actually their proposal - they've had several years with 5- and 6-team districts, where in some cases fewer than half your games determine playoff qualifiers, and they don't like it. They want more district games, no more nondistrict games after Week 2, so that means 8-team districts. I suppose, even though 6 districts are going to be pretty spread out, doing something like 5 districts (40 teams total) would be really extended geographically - and in that case you'd have schools like Mason City, DM Hoover and North Scott dropping to 3A. That would not necessarily be bad for a lot of reasons, but that's not what the state wants to do.

Another potential change in other classes, like 4A going to 6 districts, is 3A/2A/1A going to 7 districts of 8, instead of 8 districts of 7. Increasing the number of district games, top two in each district make the playoffs, and then figure out four "wild card" qualifiers. Personally, if the above changes go in for 2016-17, I expect more changes, perhaps significant ones to numbers of classes and such, for the years beyond that.

Potentially next year, going by the current list of BEDS numbers, changes in classes could be as follows:

4A - Top 48. Add Western Dubuque and Norwalk. Eventually the new Iowa City high school will move somebody back down.

3A - Next 56. Lose Western Dubuque and Norwalk to 4A, and Solon, Gilbert, and Boyden-Hull/Rock Valley to 2A. Add MOC-Floyd Valley, Center Point-Urbana, Spirit Lake, South Tama, and Iowa Falls-Alden.

2A - Next 56. Lose the five teams above to 3A. If I had the time this morning I'd dig through all the numbers and sharing agreements to see the 2A/1A changes, but that will have to wait for later. :)

1A - Next 56. Class A is everybody else who isn't playing 8-player, so you have to wait and see who elects 8-player before working all that out. This year there are 61 schools playing 8-player and 62 in Class A, but there could be a big move to 8-player next year, possibly, so the lower classes are in flux.
 
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KidSilver, Thanks. I find the Solon data interesting as I would have bet anything their enrollment was going up quickly. Just driving down HW10 seems like there are constantly housing going up. I suspect these are houses for people with small families and while the number of housing units are going up, kids are not. Still, that area looks like Western Dubuque on HW 20.
 
Solon and Gilbert are just barely out of the range of the 56 3A teams in the last BEDS count, and by barely I mean by two students. It's possible that the current count is a temporary blip, with larger numbers on the way up the grades - if that's so, then one or both may stick in 3A.
 
Using the top 48 enrollment schools vs 46 for 4A is a minor change. They are just correcting an obvious error they made when the 4A districts were set up. If the board is uncomfortable with public schools with less then 700 students, then they should drop the class to 40 members. The big issue has always been the size of the districts. 8 team districts based on geography, gives a conference feel to the coaches, much like the other classes. The biggest challenge would be, which 8 teams to place in the most western district in 4A. Moving CBLC to 4A football was the first step. I think a 40 team 4A class is a long term solution. If the few urban areas in iowa keep adding suburban high schools, then the smaller isolated 4A schools will eventually approach 3A status with their declining enrollment.
 
I think you'll continue to see a mixed bag of Polk County teams mixed with the old MRAC schools.

With only seven Far West teams (3 SC, 3 CB & FD) scattering them across three districts makes sense, leaving non-district for intra-city games.
 
There has to be some common sense to all this. Let's get real, West Des Moines Valley vs. Norwalk!? Forget about enrollment, we are not using common sense. Why do we still have A and 1A football? Seriously? The biggest discrepancy right now in Iowa High School Football is not between 1A and 2A schools or 2A and 3A schools and so forth, it's within 4A football it's self. That was proven last week with Regina vs. Xavier. Class A football needs to be dropped and 4/3A within it's self needs to be changed, not simply on enrollment. Mason City, Waterloo East, Norwalk, etc. belong competing in 3A football, not 4A. 4A Football is turning into the have's and have not's due to population growth, social economic status, and other non enrollment factors. Let's start considering those. Boone, Iowa is a good ole boys club and nothing will ever change without a boycott of those people who pay themselves essentially with all this. There is no oversight or input from the IFCA what's so ever. 4A Football also needs to drop sophomore only teams and start doing what every other state does. Varsity, JV, and Freshman. JV plays on Monday nights. Have you seen many of the schools with sophomore teams, there is barely enough to practice with each other. Drop it and go to JV. Varsity Friday nights, JV Monday nights, and Freshman on Thursday and Saturdays. A new approach to fresh ideas is much needed. The good ole boy club has to end.
 
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There has to be some common sense to all this. Let's get real, West Des Moines Valley vs. Norwalk!? Forget about enrollment, we are not using common sense. Why do we still have A and 1A football? Seriously? The biggest discrepancy right now in Iowa High School Football is not between 1A and 2A schools or 2A and 3A schools and so forth, it's within 4A football it's self. That was proven last week with Regina vs. Xavier. Class A football needs to be dropped and 4/3A within it's self needs to be changed, not simply on enrollment. Mason City, Waterloo East, Norwalk, etc. belong competing in 3A football, not 4A. 4A Football is turning into the have's and have not's due to population growth, social economic status, and other non enrollment factors. Let's start considering those. Boone, Iowa is a good ole boys club and nothing will ever change without a boycott of those people who pay themselves essentially with all this. There is no oversight or input from the IFCA what's so ever. 4A Football also needs to drop sophomore only teams and start doing what every other state does. Varsity, JV, and Freshman. JV plays on Monday nights. Have you seen many of the schools with sophomore teams, there is barely enough to practice with each other. Drop it and go to JV. Varsity Friday nights, JV Monday nights, and Freshman on Thursday and Saturdays. A new approach to fresh ideas is much needed. The good ole boy club has to end.


Well I do agree with some of your post. The best level for football across the board is at the 2A/3A level. That is where teams are most competitive and the games are the best. The 4A level there are teams with constant tradition and then the rest. There are some teams at the 4A level that couldn't compete at the 2A/3A level, but they get their pick out of 600+ students and the smaller schools get to choose out of 200-400 students? That is a big advantage in some sense.

The boys in Boone are trying to level the playing field (hell they expand the playoffs) a few years back because everyone said it wasn't fair. Well now they are cutting it back because everyone thinks that teams that win 2 games don't deserve to be in the playoffs. I mean this was made because they wanted to get some of those teams who miss the playoffs some momentum and get the chance to play post-season ball. Sadly it didn't work out that way. I don't know what the solution to that one is.

I don't know the numbers or schools. Could some of the 4A schools combine? Like Davenport schools combine into 1 or 2 instead of 3? Iowa City schools combine into 1? Cedar Rapids schools split into 2 teams? IDK if that would be possible or not, just an idea. I see some of these struggling schools have only 20-30 kids out and it can't be good to look across the field at a CRK, Washington, Dowling squad with 70+ kids on the bench.
 
The whole idea of separating teams like "Mason City, Waterloo East and Norwalk", to compete in 3A is ridiculous. Exactly how about do you go separating teams by quality, instead of quantity? Clinton has had a very rough history. But what happened the year David Johnson came through there and was a senior? 9-0. 9-0 against the same competition they'd struggled against before. When Marshalltown was getting crushed 7-8 times per year, there was little they could do. Then all of a sudden, a quarterback like Tyler Peschong comes around, then Justin Gimbel and they do better than 7-2 each year...once even making the 4A Championship game.

The only way you can separate teams with any logical justification is by enrollment. I completely understand that enrollment has nothing to do with participation numbers. And I understand the socio-economic factors that favor some areas as opposed to others. And no matter where you break off the numbers, someone is going to feel shafted, because they're at the bottom; be it 48 or 40 or even 64. North Scott has been in the bottom five in 4A enrollment for many years. In fact, right now, they're under the 700 BEDS requirement. Have they been unsuccessful? No, they've been one of the more consistent programs in the state. Lewis Central's done just fine since moving up to 4A last year. Numbers do not equal success.

How about creating a class every 16 teams and allowing 8 into the playoffs? It doesn't matter how you divvy it up, the same teams are going to make the playoffs no matter how it's sliced.
 
Per the information provided by KidSilverhair, and the likelihood of a 48-team 4A, I did what I do...created a mock eight-team, six-district set-up. I used the tier system that I added to the first post on this thread. In addition to the districts, I added possible opponents for non-district games. Enjoy.

DISTRICT 1...
West Des Moines Dowling - vs. Ankeny / @ WDM Valley
Waukee - vs. WDM Valley / @ SE Polk
Urbandale - vs. SE Polk / @ Johnston
Council Bluffs Lincoln - vs. CB Lewis Central / @ Harlan(3A)
Norwalk - @ DM East / vs. Indianola
Sioux City North - vs. SC West / @ SC East
Des Moines North - @ DM Roosevelt / vs. DM East
Council Bluffs Jefferson - vs. Glenwood(3A) / @ CB Lewis Central

DISTRICT 2...
West Des Moines Valley - @ Waukee / vs. WDM Dowling
Ankeny Centennial - vs. Johnston / @ Ankeny
Sioux City East - @ SC Heelan(3A) / vs. SC North
Des Moines Lincoln - vs. DM Hoover / @ Fort Dodge
Council Bluffs Lewis Central - @ CB Lincoln / vs. CB Jefferson
Des Moines East - vs. Norwalk / @ DM North
Des Moines Roosevelt - vs. DM North / @ DM Hoover
Sioux City West - @ SC North / vs. Sergeant Bluff-Luton(3A)

DISTRICT 3...
Ankeny - @ WDM Dowling / vs. Ank Centennial
Southeast Polk - @ Urbandale / vs. Waukee
Johnston - @ Ank Centennial / vs. Urbandale
Fort Dodge - @ Cedar Falls / vs. DM Lincoln
Ames - vs. Marshalltown / @ IC High
Indianola - vs. Ottumwa / @ Norwalk
Mason City - vs. Clear Lake(2A) / @ Marshalltown
Des Moines Hoover - @ DM Lincoln / vs. DM Roosevelt

DISTRICT 4...
Cedar Falls - vs. Fort Dodge / @ Dub Hempstead
Cedar Rapids Washington - vs. Linn-Mar / @ CR Jefferson
Cedar Rapids Kennedy - vs. CR Jefferson / @ Muscatine
Marshalltown - @ Ames / vs. Mason City
Iowa City West - vs. IC High / @ Ottumwa
Cedar Rapids Prairie - vs. Burlington / @ Linn-Mar
Waterloo West - vs. Dub Senior / @ Waverly-Shell Rock(3A)
Waterloo East - @ Independence(3A) / vs. Western Dubuque

DISTRICT 5...
Bettendorf - @ North Scott / vs. Pleasant Valley
Iowa City High - @ IC West / vs. Ames
Muscatine - @ Pleasant Valley / vs. CR Kennedy
Ottumwa - @ Indianola / vs. IC West
Davenport Central - @ Dav North / vs. North Scott
Burlington - @ CR Prairie / vs. Clinton
Cedar Rapids Jefferson - @ CR Kennedy / vs. CR Washington
Davenport West - @ Clinton / vs. Dav North

DISTRICT 6...
North Scott - vs. Bettendorf / @ Dav Central
Pleasant Valley - vs. Muscatine / @ Bettendorf
Linn-Mar - @ CR Washington / vs. CR Prairie
Dubuque Hempstead - @ Dub Wahlert(3A) / vs. Cedar Falls
Clinton - vs. Dav West / @ Burlington
Western Dubuque - vs. West Delaware(3A) / @ Wat East
Dubuque Senior - @ Wat West / vs. Dub Wahlert(3A)
Davenport North - vs. Dav Central / @ Dav West
 
The whole idea of separating teams like "Mason City, Waterloo East and Norwalk", to compete in 3A is ridiculous. Exactly how about do you go separating teams by quality, instead of quantity? Clinton has had a very rough history. But what happened the year David Johnson came through there and was a senior? 9-0. 9-0 against the same competition they'd struggled against before. When Marshalltown was getting crushed 7-8 times per year, there was little they could do. Then all of a sudden, a quarterback like Tyler Peschong comes around, then Justin Gimbel and they do better than 7-2 each year...once even making the 4A Championship game.

The only way you can separate teams with any logical justification is by enrollment. I completely understand that enrollment has nothing to do with participation numbers. And I understand the socio-economic factors that favor some areas as opposed to others. And no matter where you break off the numbers, someone is going to feel shafted, because they're at the bottom; be it 48 or 40 or even 64. North Scott has been in the bottom five in 4A enrollment for many years. In fact, right now, they're under the 700 BEDS requirement. Have they been unsuccessful? No, they've been one of the more consistent programs in the state. Lewis Central's done just fine since moving up to 4A last year. Numbers do not equal success.

How about creating a class every 16 teams and allowing 8 into the playoffs? It doesn't matter how you divvy it up, the same teams are going to make the playoffs no matter how it's sliced.
 
Anybody have any insight as to whether IC Liberty will try to field a varsity team in 2017? My guess is no, since seniors in their attendance area that first year will have the option to remain at City & West. Not the best situation for building new school spirit, but they won't even have a stadium until 2019
 
There has to be some common sense to all this. Let's get real, West Des Moines Valley vs. Norwalk!? Forget about enrollment, we are not using common sense. Why do we still have A and 1A football? Seriously? The biggest discrepancy right now in Iowa High School Football is not between 1A and 2A schools or 2A and 3A schools and so forth, it's within 4A football it's self. That was proven last week with Regina vs. Xavier. Class A football needs to be dropped and 4/3A within it's self needs to be changed, not simply on enrollment. Mason City, Waterloo East, Norwalk, etc. belong competing in 3A football, not 4A. 4A Football is turning into the have's and have not's due to population growth, social economic status, and other non enrollment factors. Let's start considering those. Boone, Iowa is a good ole boys club and nothing will ever change without a boycott of those people who pay themselves essentially with all this. There is no oversight or input from the IFCA what's so ever. 4A Football also needs to drop sophomore only teams and start doing what every other state does. Varsity, JV, and Freshman. JV plays on Monday nights. Have you seen many of the schools with sophomore teams, there is barely enough to practice with each other. Drop it and go to JV. Varsity Friday nights, JV Monday nights, and Freshman on Thursday and Saturdays. A new approach to fresh ideas is much needed. The good ole boy club has to end.

A few interesting things there. The problem in the first scenario isn't Norwalk, it's Valley. So, I'd say put a cap on how big a 4A school can be and make them split. Ankeny has ethics and split, Iowa City is, Waukee will too when the time comes. Valley can field a team but shouldn't qualify for the 4A playoffs.

Next about dropping sophomore football, no thanks. Why make less participation available? I'd expand Soph football to include B games like they do freshman. Get as many kids playing as you can.
 
That's an interesting angle, woodsiding, putting a cap on 4A. I like the idea, but there is no way the IHSAA can dictate to a school how large they can be, at least as an institution. What you're advising is that the IHSAA makes Valley split in order to satisfy some cap number. That almost sounds communist, to me.

So now West Des Moines is stuck with finding space for another building, creating new district lines, staffing the facility and most importantly, getting the community to get behind the whole project. Seeing how West Des Moines is the Orange County of Iowa, everything was just built yesterday and will be old and obsolete in five years, maybe this is possible. But don't hold your breath. I think the Valley community enjoys the advantages of having more kids per class than the lowest enrolled schools they compete against have in three.

The Board of Education could possibly step in and say they're too big for the services they can provide, but I don't think Valley is having any issues like that either.
 
The West Des Moines school district is landlocked and their enrollment is stable. Also, they completed a major renovation of the Valley campus a few years back. Two pretty big disincentives to splitting.
 
unless Norwalk picked up 15 new kids a grade this fall from last year, they won't be moving up to a 48 team 4A. 2014-15 data by grade is the most recent published on the DOE website. I used 8th-10th grade numbers to give a solid approximation of where every school might be for this year's 9-11 count. Norwalk was 49th at 611 while Newton came in 48th with 653. Conventional wisdom says Newton should be shedding students after Maytag shut down and families left, but the data shows a different story, with lower grades in the 220-240 range.
 
In talking with a W. Dubuque coach-- their enrollment is trending upward. They will get pushed down to 3A in basketball soon with the addition of the expansion schools in Iowa City and the Des Moines metro area which will jump them in enrollment.
 
This is a good thread.

There is no good way to solve this issue. Size v. success. You have really big schools that are really bad and would struggle to compete against 3A or even 2A teams. There are smaller schools that have been successful and can compete almost every year. The dilemma is that it would be nice to create a situation where the football "haves" could play in a 5A class. The Betts, Valleys, Dowlings, and Cedar Falls types. Have 2 or 4 8 team districts with either 16 or 32 teams playing really good football. The issue is how to determine who those teams are? Base it on performance or size or both?
I'm not sure what will happen or how they will figure everything out but I am fascinated by it.

On another topic...

Sophomore football should be reclassified as JV. The 10th coaches turn into JV coaches and use really good freshmen, mainly sophs, and young or marginal varsity kids. Too many teams are forced to cancel JV games because of numbers or even safety issues. Most teams have to play makeshift groups of kids to get a JV team. It is a disservice. By putting everyone on the same page as to what JV football is, the product would benefit and kids would become better, teams would be in much better situations. Most teams would not have to hire or fire coaches and still be able to offer the same opportunities to play.

It would also eliminate scheduling issues too.
 
unless Norwalk picked up 15 new kids a grade this fall from last year, they won't be moving up to a 48 team 4A. 2014-15 data by grade is the most recent published on the DOE website. I used 8th-10th grade numbers to give a solid approximation of where every school might be for this year's 9-11 count. Norwalk was 49th at 611 while Newton came in 48th with 653. Conventional wisdom says Newton should be shedding students after Maytag shut down and families left, but the data shows a different story, with lower grades in the 220-240 range.

Pax, the 2015-2016 beds document is already on the IAHSAA website and Norwalk is #48 with 633 students. Here's a link to that document: http://www.iahsaa.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/2015-2016-BEDS-Num.pdf

Newton is now at 616 students to drop to #49.
 
If you read at the top of the document, it says "2014-15 enrollment"

We are talking about classification for the fall of 2016, which would use data from the fall of this 2015-16 school year.
 
You are correct that those are the numbers for classification for the 2015-16 school year, but if you look at the last 5 years of beds documents, Newton is trending down and Norwalk up. I don't see that changing. I think Norwalk will be playing 4A football next year.

10-11
Norwalk 564
Newton 686

11-12
Norwalk 570
Newton 642

12-13
Norwalk 582
Newton 666

14-15
Norwalk 605
Newton 622

15-16
Norwalk 633
Newton 616
 
I appreciate the numbers that SERRamFan produced here and there's no doubt that Norwalk is "trending" upward. But fluctuations happen. So even a small drop wouldn't be completely out of line.

The fact that paxregis found the DOE numbers for Norwalk and Newton, then compiled the numbers for this year's 8-10 grade, which will translate very closely towards next year's 9-11(official BEDS) count...I gotta go with my man and agree that Newton is probably the second jumper, with Western Dubuque, if those were the numbers he found.
 
another thing to keep in mind... Todd Tharp at IAHSAA was quoted in the Register as saying "... Maybe 48 in 4A won't be the number. Maybe it'll be 40 or 42 or 54, we'll look and decide.". This was in regards to the classification committee. Changing from 48 would really shake things up. Going to 54 seems out of the question as it creates an even bigger difference between the top and bottom of 4A (and with today's numbers it would bring Xavier back into 4A). Dropping to 40 would send teams like Clinton, Mason City, Waterloo East, Lewis Central and North Scott down to 3A. Will be interesting to see what happens.
 
I think Tharp was just hedging his bets, in case a larger number than expected number of Class A schools declare for 8-man. 62 teams played in Class A this cycle. If two teams are added to 4A and four (a reasonable number) drop to 8-man, that still leaves 56 teams. That would allow seven districts of eight teams in all the lower classes.
 
Plus he was talking about the next redistricting, in 2018 and beyond. I can almost guarantee you there aren't going to be either 40 or 54 teams in 4A in 2016-17. It's almost certainly going to be 48.

Going forward? Who knows?
 
I see 4A remaining at 48 teams for the next few cycles. IC Liberty comes online in 2017 and a second Waukee HS is likely by the end of the decade. Growing suburban schools like Western Dubuque, Norwalk & DC-G will eventually take the place of declining enrollment districts like North Scott, Fort Dodge & Mason City.
 
Burlington has been trending down and would be near the cut if 40 schools are included. I suspect their enrollement will increase in coming years as there has been economic growth over the last 3 years, but open enrollment is taking it's toll.
 
Western Dubuque and Norwalk will be the two schools playing 4A Football next year. I believe Newton is not counting any of their alternative school students in official BEDS numbers--that is how they dipped below Norwalk this year-making Norwalk the smallest 4A school in XC, basketball, track, baseball, and any other 4-class sport. I assume Newton will be slightly smaller next year and Norwalk slightly bigger, but there are always year to year dips and changes. The official count day has come and gone--each school should know their own number of current 9-10-11 graders--if you know anyone at these schools I'm sure they could tell you what class they'll be in next year.
 
No school counts alternative school students towards their BEDS number. Norwalk had some of their larger classes included in that number. Newton had a couple sub-200 classes, but they have a string of 220-230 grades coming up.

I'm guessing IC Liberty will be included in the 4A districts, leaving one Eastern district with seven teams for 2016. That would mean just Western Dubuque moves up and some Week Zero games for those 4A schools in Liberty's district.
 
If your alternative school students are eligible to participate at extra-curricular activities at the regular school then they are supposed to count them.
 
If your alternative school students are eligible to participate at extra-curricular activities at the regular school then they are supposed to count them.

But how many students assigned to alternative schools are even going to be eligible, let alone would even participate in sports.
 
But how many students assigned to alternative schools are even going to be eligible, let alone would even participate in sports.
They may start the season ineligible many times but by mid season they are passing, I would imagine the curriculum makes it possible to get passing grades. I assume they would have to take in their enrollment unless there is a policy where if that route is taken then sports is not an option.
 
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