Spring vs Summer High School Season

[CatcherForLife6]

What is everyone's thoughts on playing the high school season in the Summer vs Spring? Iowa is one of the few states (3 states total, including Iowa) to play their high school season during the summer.

I often hear the argument that the weather wouldn't permit Iowa to move the season to the spring. Contrary to that, Minnesota's season starts mid-march and ends in the beginning of June, if they are able to do it then so would Iowa. One of the benefits for spring ball also would be that kids would be on an equal playing field with the other 47 states when it comes to recruiting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that a lot of colleges rosters would fill up and unless you are a standout player and have had stand out seasons in the past, you could go unnoticed.

A bad thing about spring ball is that there are a lot of other activities going on during that time (Track, Golf, etc.). One of the negatives of Summer ball is that it often gets in the way of summer vacations and kids lose out on practice time and playing time. The biggest down fall is that every other sport gets the summer to work with their athletes to improve their game. Since the time is spent in season for baseball, they aren't allowed the additional 3 months working time that all the other sports are.


I've included a good article by the Le Mars Daily Sentinel that they did back in 2010 discussing this further if you'd like you read more. Just curious what everyone's thoughts were.

Le Mars Daily Sentinel: Summer high school basebal

 

[mntwinsrule]

I agree that Iowa should play baseball in the Spring rather than the Summer, but the weather can be a problem. My kid plays college ball in Minnesota and their team didn't play one home game all year. They had to play on Augustana's field because they have a turf infielf. I know it's not like that every year, but the year's it is, it can ruin a whole season. This year is expected to be another terrible year for MN. I heard that there in 9 feet of frozen gound underneath the surface, and that most fields won't be playable until May or so. And on the high school part, I know many kids from MN say their legion ball during the summer is more competitive than their high school ball. I doubt that would happen in Iowa but you never know.

From an athlete's perspective, I'd much rather play in the Spring. Many kids are multi-sport athletes and they are being forced to choose between baseball or basketball/other sports. I think it hurts many teams because those kids who would be maybe your 6 or 7 hitter that you don't think would hurt if you didn't have, really do. Coaches are forced to put in some kid that probably shouldn't be starting high school baseball, but because that other player didn't go out, they have to. This can really hurt especially the smaller schools in Iowa.

 

[EHS1505]

The spring leagues are already miserable in Iowa. Follow Perfect Game on Twitter, they are always scrambling and fighting to get games in... and that's in April. South Sioux City finally got High School baseball a few years ago. They only play about 15-20 games in the regular season and they lose half of those to weather.

Moving baseball to the spring would kill off at least 1 sport at any school below the 3A level and I'm not entirely sure all 3A schools would have all of their sports survive either. Track, golf and soccer are already all fighting for kids, if you throw in a 4th sport, which could still be considered a "major" sport in baseball and it's simply a numbers game. Enrollments don't support that many sports at once at smaller schools.

 

[mntwinsrule]

EHS who do you have taking the MRAC crown this year?

 

[ballboy21]

Sioux City West or TJ hands down

 

[EHS1505]

Originally posted by mntwinsrule:
EHS who do you have taking the MRAC crown this year?

I would put Heelan as a heavy favorite this year. I think 2-4 can compete with them on any given day, but Heelan only lost 2 to graduation and I think they can easily replace both. Stolen didn't throw all that well last year compared to the previous year. Barr didn't throw particularly well either despite both of them having fancy W-L records.

Despite also only losing 2 players to graduation, SBL struggles to score runs. They'll have to rely heavily on Selig and Hansen to keep them in the bigger games.

Due to a large graduating class, there are so many question marks with East's line-up that it's hard to tell.

I would put North in the same category as East. Meacham's departure will have as big or bigger of an impact at North as Dom's does at East. The other 3 seniors didn't contribute a ton offensively, but it's still their middle infield and catcher.

I'll be interested to see if Tillo goes out again or if he'll focus on basketball. He's a solid baseball player, but those basketball offers and opportunities have to be difficult to continue to pass up.

 

[WhiteShadowHoops]

The spring leagues are miserable excuse can't work. There are plenty of states in the same or worse climate region who tough it out and play in the spring. I think basketball suffers tremendously because of summer baseball, as it is a sport that kids need to be working on during those summer months for a good return late fall/early winter.

 

[EHS1505]

Originally posted by WhiteShadowHoops:
The spring leagues are miserable excuse can't work. There are plenty of states in the same or worse climate region who tough it out and play in the spring. I think basketball suffers tremendously because of summer baseball, as it is a sport that kids need to be working on during those summer months for a good return late fall/early winter.

Saying 15-20 games is enough in the course of a baseball season is like saying 7-10 basketball games is enough for a regular season. I'm pretty sure gyms can be open year round, maybe they should move the AAU circuit to the Spring and leave baseball alone.

You also ignored my other points in my original post.

If you want to make the argument to move it up a month so kids still get an actual month off before football starts, so May 1 - July 1 and all of July off, I'd support that and I think a lot of others would too, but don't use basketball as a reason.

Kids are almost twice as likely (11.2% vs 5.9%) to play college baseball as college basketball anyway. It's purely roster numbers, if every college in America had a baseball and basketball team, it'd be a 25:15 ratio which is about spot on for the % difference in the study I linked below.

I find it ironic that the two major sports that demand the most off-season work via AAU circuits (basketball and volleyball) are the two major sports with the lowest % of athletes that move from High School to College. Talk about your ultimate bait and switch/money grab scheme... lol

High School to College

 

[ballboy21]

So what is your plan for track, golf, soccer? Which sport would you like to kill off in order for small schools to still have baseball? I mean as long as basketball gets to work in the summer time its all good right.....?

Obviously you are a basketball minded person...and I am a baseball minded person......how much do you think baseball suffers during basketball season when kids wont come in and work due to games and limits their offseason growth?? I mean the state already screws coaches by not allowing them to work on batting mechanics in the offseason...now they have to deal with basketball games getting in the way...oh that's right the baseball coaches just suck it up and deal with it.

 

[EHS1505]

Originally posted by ballboy21:




So what is your plan for track, golf, soccer? Which sport would you like to kill off in order for small schools to still have baseball? I mean as long as basketball gets to work in the summer time its all good right.....?

Obviously you are a basketball minded person...and I am a baseball minded person......how much do you think baseball suffers during basketball season when kids wont come in and work due to games and limits their offseason growth?? I mean the state already screws coaches by not allowing them to work on batting mechanics in the offseason...now they have to deal with basketball games getting in the way...oh that's right the baseball coaches just suck it up and deal with it.

See... he didn't ignore my other points...

 

[tm3308]

I could care less about basketball recruiting. I'm a much bigger baseball fan than I am a basketball fan, but even looking at this objectively, playing baseball in the spring is an awful idea.

The main argument for moving the season is recruiting, both for baseball and basketball players. Well guess what? The association isn't in the business of helping kids get recruited, nor should it be. It's in the business of providing kids the opportunity to play as many sports as possible.

You move baseball into the spring, and you're going to see three (minimum) programs struggle at most schools, simply because they don't have the numbers to support three sports at once. Pretty much everyone has golf and track, and quite a few have soccer programs, too. Most of the schools large enough to have tennis teams might not be affected that much, but some might be.

IMO, the only good reason to be a one-sport athlete is if that one sport is track. If you play any other sport during the rest of the year, you should also be out for track. Running track for just one year made the biggest difference on my baseball game than anything else; I went from not getting a single steal sign as a freshman-junior to stealing 15 bases as a senior because running track (even as a distance runner) improved my short-distance speed tremendously. That extra power/quickness in my legs and core made a big difference in my swing, too (along with 2 hours of tee work every day in the gym, even after practices for other sports); went from hitting .170 or worse in two years at the varsity level to hitting .440 and making all-district in my last year.

Losing the ability to run track and play baseball would hurt a lot of kids, and when forced to choose between the two, the kids who choose baseball would lose that track benefit in football and/or basketball, too.

Baseball is a summer sport. Even though Iowa is in the overwhelming minority, I've always thought it was strange that other states (particularly other midwestern/northern states) play it in the spring. Baseball players are called the Boys of Summer for a reason.

 

[EHS1505]

Amen!

 

[gg2224]

Recruiting has often been sited as a good reason for Iowa high schools to move to spring ball.

Consider:
-Seventeen Iowans play baseball this year for the Hawkeyes.
-Several other Iowans play or have recently signed for Division I schools in Kansas, Minnesota, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Nebraska, Missouri, Arkansas, North Carolina and Tennessee and I'm sure that's not an exhaustive list.
-I should also mention the success that local junior colleges and Division III schools have had nationally in recent years as well as Iowans playing in neighboring states in Division II.
-Finally, Iowa has its fair share of players who draw draft consideration directly out of high school.

It seems to me that those baseball players who want to take their game to the next level are finding good opportunities to do so, summer baseball and all.

 

[gg2224]

I did a little research, please allow me to ammend my list of states that include Iowa HS D1 signees since 2010, according to Perfect Game. :

Alabama
California
Colorado
Florida
Kentucky
South Dakota
Virginia
Washington D.C

In addition to my original list:

Arkansas
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Michigan
Minnesota
Missouri
Nebraska
North Carolina
Tennessee



This post was edited on 3/4 8:27 PM by gg2224

 

[acoach#5]

I think where the problem is coaches not being able to work with hitters during the school year and all the kids playing AAU basketball during the summer. Baseball is being killed off in our school because all these kids are playing AAU basketball. This is what stinks!

 

[gg2224]

I agree with your point. I also fail to understand the logic in Boone for restricting baseball contact when there doesn't seem to be any restrictions for other sports. I've been out of the high school loop for awhile, but my son was one of the few baseball guys that gave up football and basketball because of the unwritten\unspoken expectation to attend team camps for those sports during baseball season if you expected to see playing time.

Your point did prompt me to take a look at the Spring 2014 Sports Manual and there was some interesting language in the baseball section around coach/player contact. I couldn't find any similar language in the fall and winter sport's manuals. Does the underlined section seem to prevent basketball and football coaches from participating in summer camps?



COACH ATHLETE CONTACT

Please understand, "OPEN GYM" no longer exists. School personnel, whether employed or volunteers, of a member or

associate member school (9-12) shall not coach that school's student athletes during the school year in a sport for which the

school personnel are currently under contract or are volunteers outside the period from the official first day of practice

through the finals of tournament play in that sport.



A coach or volunteer coach may coach a senior from their school, in an all-star contest once the senior student's

interscholastic athletic season for that particular sport has concluded.



Coaches, just be sure you are not interfering with another sport in progress.



Coaches are permitted, per administrations approval, to open up their school facilities and supervise workouts by student

athletes, even if you coach that sport. This opportunity is not provided off of your school premises, meaning your middle school

or elementary building, but not someone's garage or a vacant building or a current hitting facility in town. IF athletes

participating are in a sport that you coach 8-12 one must understand you are there as a supervisor only. You can in

no way coach or provide advise to any players you coach at the 8-12 level until the first legal practice date May 5,

2014, exception pitchers and catchers.



EXAMPLE:

A. I coach varsity/JV/freshman baseball and we have a indoor hitting facility in one of our schools and we have

school permission from our Administration to open our facility up for high school baseball players to hit in the

cages and field ground balls hit by players (NOT COACHES) in the morning before school, at night at 7:00 PM or

on Saturday afternoon. Can I open up this facility and supervise this open facility?

Answer: Yes you can, but no instruction is permitted. Each local school district is responsible for monitoring the

supervisor to be sure he/she is performing their duty as specified.


SPRING OR FALL LEAGUE

If your players participate in some type of spring or fall league during the school year, you can not involve yourself

with these players. You may watch a game, but you or any on staff baseball coach 9-12 are not allowed to coach any

of your players' grades 8-12.



Eighth graders are eligible to practice the first legal day of practice and may play the first legal playing (game) date.

 

[cubs1910]

shall not coach that school's student athletes during the school year ...

The statement above is where the problem lies...A coach can not coach a player in his or her sport while school is in progress but as soon as summertime rolls around and school is closed it's a free for all. 7 on 7 camps, weekend basketball tournaments coached by the head basketball coach and you better show up or you're on the bench, open gyms on Sunday nights put on by the basketball coaches again you better be there. This list goes on and on with no respect for baseball season at all. Baseball coaches can not have any contact other than pitchers during the school year. You better not even tell the catcher to turn his glove a certain way when receiving a pitch or you are in violation or even a better rule is that while conducting an open gym any hitting being done has to be conducted in another facility. Yes, that's right, your coach might accidentally tell a hitter to do something to improve his game so hitting is not allowed while workouts are done with pitchers. When baseball practice starts in early May you will be lucky to have all players present at practice before the first game. Let's see.....golf, track, soccer, tennis, and all other things put off until spring will interfere with practice time. This is complete INSANITY period......Coaches are suppose to get these kids arms in shape and make them look like a team in less than 15 practices with several kids not present. Then play 35-40 games in 45 plus days and wonder why someone needs surgery on his elbow !!!! The IAHSAA is doing NOTHING to help kids who love the game of baseball to get better. Small schools suffer the most but no one is immune....no wonder so many baseball programs push the limits..

 

[GoHawks2009]

Originally posted by cubs1910:

shall not coach that school's student athletes during the school year ...

The statement above is where the problem lies...A coach can not coach a player in his or her sport while school is in progress but as soon as summertime rolls around and school is closed it's a free for all. 7 on 7 camps, weekend basketball tournaments coached by the head basketball coach and you better show up or you're on the bench, open gyms on Sunday nights put on by the basketball coaches again you better be there. This list goes on and on with no respect for baseball season at all. Baseball coaches can not have any contact other than pitchers during the school year. You better not even tell the catcher to turn his glove a certain way when receiving a pitch or you are in violation or even a better rule is that while conducting an open gym any hitting being done has to be conducted in another facility. Yes, that's right, your coach might accidentally tell a hitter to do something to improve his game so hitting is not allowed while workouts are done with pitchers. When baseball practice starts in early May you will be lucky to have all players present at practice before the first game. Let's see.....golf, track, soccer, tennis, and all other things put off until spring will interfere with practice time. This is complete INSANITY period......Coaches are suppose to get these kids arms in shape and make them look like a team in less than 15 practices with several kids not present. Then play 35-40 games in 45 plus days and wonder why someone needs surgery on his elbow !!!! The IAHSAA is doing NOTHING to help kids who love the game of baseball to get better. Small schools suffer the most but no one is immune....no wonder so many baseball programs push the limits..

 

[tm3308]

There is definitely no school that's any good at baseball and follows those rules to the letter. It's asinine that baseball, which IMO is the most difficult sport to master, is the one that has more restrictions placed upon it than any other.

IMO, athletes should be expected to remain committed to the sport they're currently playing, regardless of what part of the year it is. A baseball player can attend camps/open gyms/etc. for other sports, so long as they don't interfere with baseball activities. If you're the coach of another sport, know that and work your offseason workout schedule accordingly to best accommodate your multi-sport athletes. I worked my optional baseball workouts around football and track practices just fine. If practice ran long and I was late to a baseball workout in October, it was no big deal; football was my top priority at the time, not baseball.

Fortunately, I didn't play basketball in school and therefore avoided most of the conflicts. But if any coach had told me I should skip baseball practices or games to attend camps, I would have promptly told them to **** off, because I would never skip THEIR practices or games to attend a baseball camp (and there were several opportunities for me to do that over the course of 4 years).