Any list that doesn't have Hahn from Valley as the 1st-team kicker is totally invalid. His backup was better than the kid from SEP.
Des Moines Register do the right thing
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You must love stats, that's fine. There is not a team in Iowa that Lombardi would not start for.
I'm not going to argue or debate who could or would start for what school, or who might be the most talented,. that was not my point. Iowa preps itself named the QB of the year and put out a list of state QBs that were considered based on Performance this year. Let's take For example Deshaun Watson who arguable would start for most NCAA schools and was in the running for the Heisman, overall he did not perform THIS year as well as the Winner of the Heisman, Rodgers would start for almost any other NFL team but he is not having his best year....Lombardi is a great athlete and talent, and even if it is not at QB, he will most likely make a great contribution at Michigan State. My point is that these are performance based selections for this past season, or should be. Others just had a bigger impact for their team. I'm didn't mean to offend anyone on who is the best, it's just that the "best" may not have done the Best this year.. I will ask you what was asked to me.. Have you seen any other of the kids play this year or watched any Hudl videos to make a comparison in combination with the stats? Cause that is what my opinion is based off of.
Another criticism I have of the Register's lists is that they really seem to reward kids who play both ways, especially on the defensive side of the ball. Don't get me wrong, everyone selected was a great player. For example, though, the all state defensive backs should be the best defensive backs in the state. Using offensive stats as justification for a defensive honor seems like a cop-out for kids who don't need to play offense for their teams.
The Westside of the state certainly didn't get much love ( 1 player Theobald (Jr) LC) but I guess since they only pick 1 team there isn't much opportunity. The other possible candidates would have been Flem. from SCEast or possibly Baker (CbTJ)
Do you think the Register should pick a 2nd and 3rd team as well like the INA does, so more kids get recognized?
Do you think the Register should pick a 2nd and 3rd team as well like the INA does, so more kids get recognized?
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I don't understand how Hahn from Valley didn't get 1st-team. His FG % wasn't as good, but attempted multiple 50+ yard FGs and actually made a few. Missed 1 PAT with double the attempts. Kickoffs for touchbacks 85% (compared to 35%).
Heck, you could even have an argument for Centennial's kicker also.
Heck, you could even have an argument for Centennial's kicker also.
And due to his leg strength, he was asked to try some very difficult kicks, which contributed to his % being lower.
Forget Lombardi, for the sake of argument: he barely played in the 2nd half of games and also missed another due to injury.
Any list that does not have DL Naba from Valley is really irrelevant. Ask any coach that played against Valley, and he was the first name brought up, not Lombardi. This is simply an oversight, plain and simple. Really, the simple fact that Valley was not represented on the 4A first team (and for example, CR Wash had 3 defensive players) shows how flawed this is.
If you want to talk just stats, Naba had 1 more tackle, 3 more TFL and same amount of sacks. Had the 2nd most tackles on the best defense in 4A for the season. Not saying Weiland isn't deserving, but nobody is MORE deserving than him.
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Here is what Quik Stats is showing for each DL on the 1St Team List. I included the games played for each player which needs to be considered if you're looking just at stats. Also these stats are totals which include assists. I did this quick so I apologize if I've made any mistakes. I can't weigh in on Naba, I did not get to see him play however I've heard a lot about him all of which is very positive.
This came from quik stats: (Include assists)
(Tackles, Tackles for loss, Sacks, Games Played)
Theobald 45, 22 , 11.5, 9 ( Had a regular season game cancelled)
Hanson 33, 14.5, 9.5, 9 ( Won in a forfeit, no stats)
Weiland 100, 21, 7, 12
Bell 28.5, 17.5, 8, 1 3
Naba 39, 19.5, 6, 11
Based on the stats what are you basing your comment " No one is more deserving". Having not seen him play and using Quik Stats I can see how these other players made the selection. Also like Naba I'm also sure many we're pulled out of the games early in the second half based on the scores that are posted. Also note that 2 of the 4 put the stats up in 9 games.
Once again, I am not trying to argue just trying to understand your logic for the statement as it's not clear in the stats department.
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Wieland and Vance were very good and definitely deserving. Who was the third Wash player that made the list?
Class 4A
Offense
QB: Devon Moore, Sr., Waterloo West
RB: Joseph Meyer, Sr., Cedar Rapids Prairie
RB: Jacob Zachary, Sr., W.D.M. Dowling Catholic
WR/TE: Oliver Martin, Sr., Iowa City West
WR/TE: Drew Greenhaw, Sr., Muscatine
WR/TE: Carlton Todd, Sr., Waterloo West
UT: Rory Walling, Sr., Des Moines East
OL: John Yount, Sr., Ankeny Centennial
OL: Colin Newell, Sr., Ames
OL: Mark Kallenberger, Sr., Bettendorf
OL: Josh Van Roekel, Sr., Iowa City West
OL: Zach Ross, Jr., W.D.M. Dowling Catholic
Defense
DL: Dane Theobald, Jr., C.B. Lewis Central
DL: Nick Hanson, Sr., Cedar Falls
DL: Rane Weiland, Sr., Cedar Rapids Washington
DL: Atlias Bell, Sr., W.D.M. Dowling Catholic
LB: Colby Baugher, Jr., Ankeny
LB: Johnson Mator, Sr., Cedar Rapids Kennedy
LB: O'Rien Vance, Sr., Cedar Rapids Washington
LB: Jacob Hummel, Sr., W.D.M. Dowling Catholic
DB: Drew Dostal, Sr., Cedar Rapids Washington
DB: Devontae Lane, Sr., Iowa City West
DB: Jack Koerner, Sr., W.D.M. Dowling Catholic
Specialists
K: Luke Williams, Jr., Southeast Polk
P: Nick Duehr, Sr., Cedar Rapids Kennedy
R Team Conf ( W- L) Mod Str Sched Rank Off Ave Def Ave
1 WDM Valley 4A-4 (10- 1) 197.35 1L 157.52 ( 6) 41.55 ( 3) 6.82 ( 1)
2 WDM Dowling 4A-2 (12- 1) 192.69 10W 160.55 ( 2) 41.31 ( 4) 10.62 ( 2)
3 Ankeny Centennial 4A-2 (10- 2) 181.40 1L 158.32 ( 4) 40.25 ( 5) 14.83 ( 4)
5 Bettendorf 4A-7 ( 7- 3) 173.39 1L 151.77 ( 10) 34.20 ( 9) 16.00 ( 5)
9 CR Washington 4A-5 (10- 2) 164.63 1L 146.58 ( 17) 32.50 ( 12) 16.17 ( 6)
So the no. 2 and no. 6 ranked defenses in the state have 3 picks each while no. 1, 4 & 5 have 0 total. This is the problem with using stats only to build a case for all-state. In my opinion the Register needs to recognize more kids.
Had a coach tell me this weekend that the INA is the more prestigious because it takes into account more input and recognizes talent not just stats.
1 WDM Valley 4A-4 (10- 1) 197.35 1L 157.52 ( 6) 41.55 ( 3) 6.82 ( 1)
2 WDM Dowling 4A-2 (12- 1) 192.69 10W 160.55 ( 2) 41.31 ( 4) 10.62 ( 2)
3 Ankeny Centennial 4A-2 (10- 2) 181.40 1L 158.32 ( 4) 40.25 ( 5) 14.83 ( 4)
5 Bettendorf 4A-7 ( 7- 3) 173.39 1L 151.77 ( 10) 34.20 ( 9) 16.00 ( 5)
9 CR Washington 4A-5 (10- 2) 164.63 1L 146.58 ( 17) 32.50 ( 12) 16.17 ( 6)
So the no. 2 and no. 6 ranked defenses in the state have 3 picks each while no. 1, 4 & 5 have 0 total. This is the problem with using stats only to build a case for all-state. In my opinion the Register needs to recognize more kids.
Had a coach tell me this weekend that the INA is the more prestigious because it takes into account more input and recognizes talent not just stats.
Our coach says the complete opposite, he thinks the Register is better, way to many voters on the INA who lack football knowledge or haven't done any player research. I personally think the Register is better however I think there is room for improvement and would agree with you, add players to both offense and defense or pick a second team. I would love to see 3 additional picks on both sides of the ball and just one team.
The INA takes recommendations from coaches during their meeting; the DMR does not.
And I'm the register's case you have 1 or 2 guys that do all the voting and neither of them know anything about football. Look, I can go on quick stats and tell you who led the state in rushing or tackles and while that has to be a part of the criteria, I want to know who coaches had to gameplan for. Who they feared. Naba, Gates, Soko...those are guys you fear. They are guys you want to build a team around. I'm not saying these others aren't deserving....just saying I trust the coaches know what the hell theyre talking about over the Des Moines register.
Congratulations to all the honorees though. You had a great year if you were on either list!!!
Congratulations to all the honorees though. You had a great year if you were on either list!!!
Your 100% correct coaches can give recommendations ( use that word loosely) to INA Voters who cast votes and ask that certain players make the list. Case in point, Urbandale failed to even make the playoffs yet had 4 players make one of the INA Teams, btw the Urbandale coach is listed as one of the coaches in attendance for the voting. That alone paints a "black cloud" on how the INA System works. DSM Sports Fan never mentioned any Urbandale players on either his mid-season or year-end list (just as a point of reference).
Creston sends multiple voters to the selection process and low and behold has 4 players making one of the INA Teams yet get ousted in the opening round of the playoffs.
Do I think NABA Should have made the Register selection? YES! But I can also shoot holes all over the INA Selections as well. IMO both publications have holes and good players we're overlooked.
I echo @kennyarnold, Congrats to every player regardless of what team you made or what publication it was in.
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What I think would be interesting would be if every team was represented by a group of players to vote on guys they think should be nominated from there respected side of the state then we have an eastern and western all state because nobody would know more than the players themselves
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