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Woodward Academy

S

SEPAlumni

Freshman
Sep 23, 2012
119
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So, we all agree that the success for WA is awesome for those kids, thoughts on a couple issues:

1) not all Iowa kids?

2) come from all size schools

3) size-they have 197 boys, if they had the equal # of girls, it would be 400 kids, a solid 3A, #1 seed AP, has 205 kids on Beds, so they have roughly, 102 boys to choose from!

I will be the first to say this can make a huge difference in the lives of these young men, and might be the most positive thing to happen to them in a long time! Possibly the kids from another school had worked very hard to make the state tournament;

Just looking for thoughts?
 
At-risk kids. 100% boys. Half non-white varied ethnicities. Congratulations to them on this huge accomplishment. Had lost to Panorama twice earlier in season. That's about all I could find on Google. Interesting question about BEDS, when they have this many boys and no girls.
 
Link to a story about a kid from Baltimore being Court Ordered to WA

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bal-md.juvenile27oct27-story.html

WA is on the approved list for California Juvenile Offenders
http://www.ccld.ca.gov/res/pdf/OOSGHlist.pdf

CR Point Guard
http://thegazette.com/2010/01/02/c-r-teen-could-walk-away-from-violent-background-but-will-he

Blog, discussing kids
http://wwacademy.blogspot.com/2014_07_01_archive.html
 
How about the fact that their starting PG(one of the few kids from Iowa I believe) all year long would have been academically ineligible to play at his former school and ineligible due to school conduct code. Yet, he gets to move right in to Woodward and can play right away. Seems there are different rules in place for the Academy kids. And I understand that technically they are not considered transfers or open enrollers because they live on campus. Still a joke when you are talking about kids who where sent there because of major offenses with the law.

Also, according to the West Central Valley board minutes in November of 2014 he may have graduated. But maybe he never met the requirements to graduate, which seems that he would probably be academically ineligible again. But different rules for them probably.

Link - http://www.wcv.k12.ia.us/vimages/shared/vnews/stories/53bffc7763f54/November%2019%2C%202014%20regular%20meeting%20minutes.pdf
 
I assume that the school has a policy about whether or not a student may participate in sports to begin with, perhaps a grace period of some kind, so I trust the schools judgment on when kids can play if they join mid-season. I also believe that sports are a great priviledge, and this opportunity now may be the greatest thing to happen to some of them. Hopefully they have a great coach that is teaching more than the game. Because each student is likely not allowed to participate, possibly because of behavior, it greatly skews the numbers (potentially). I say congrats to them, take more from the experience than just the game though.
 
To bad! I bet over half of those kids are not able to play due to discinaplary issues but from what I understand, you have to earn your way on to the team (as in stay out of trouble,grades etc.) but you want to belittle the team for making state?
mad.r191677.gif
 
I don't think they are being belittled. Someone is pointing out the fact they play by different rules than are what is required of the rest of the schools they compete against. Making it to state doesn't change that.
 
Warriors Dad, I hope you do not think I am belittling them, just sharing facts and gathering opinions. I assume nothing, and am not guessing about anything, I have never seen them play and have no dog in the fight! I do however, feel bad for teams that got beat by them to go to state, I am not sure that it is an even playing field!
 
Well...if there is one thing I've learned from reading these boards, it's that almost no one ever believes that there is truly an 'even playing field'.
And, to some degree that may be true, but honestly that sentiment will never change no matter what the rules may be.
 
Pine, would love to hear your thoughts, your post was about a post, which is fine, but curious what you think!
 
I guess I think if you follow the IAHSAA rules that's the bottom line. Criticisms of actions that toe that line are fair and often warranted. But, as long as everyone plays by the same rules currently on the book...what can you do? Except complain...which can be cathartic sometimes.
:)
 
Originally posted by greatgame14:
How about the fact that their starting PG(one of the few kids from Iowa I believe) all year long would have been academically ineligible to play at his former school and ineligible due to school conduct code. Yet, he gets to move right in to Woodward and can play right away. Seems there are different rules in place for the Academy kids. And I understand that technically they are not considered transfers or open enrollers because they live on campus. Still a joke when you are talking about kids who where sent there because of major offenses with the law.

Also, according to the West Central Valley board minutes in November of 2014 he may have graduated. But maybe he never met the requirements to graduate, which seems that he would probably be academically ineligible again. But different rules for them probably.

Link - http://www.wcv.k12.ia.us/vimages/shared/vnews/stories/53bffc7763f54/November%2019%2C%202014%20regular%20meeting%20minutes.pdf
Click to expand...
I will say that I am very much okay with most of these kids playing immediately.

The reason...

I look at these kids. They committed crimes of various sorts. They were headed down the wrong path and were given a new opportunity. Allowing them to play basketball should help in keeping him off the streets and hopefully focused on that and school. I would 100% back any situation that will allow a change of scenery for a troubled kid and also give him the chance to find team work and skills in basketball that he would never see on the streets as long as it is someone will wants/is willing to make the changes as a person. It is a positive influence on our society to have schools of that sort.
 
Max, 100% agree with that, thoughts on regular season, but not allowed to play in tournaments, still builds them as people etc,
 
The same thing happens when private schools have success. Critics will step up and complain. Panorama had WA in their substate game and fell apart late. If they win, none of this stuff comes up.
 
I think you have to separate Woodward from schools like Quakerdale Prep, who has older students & plays a schedule filled with CC's & college JV teams.

As long as Woodward's players are 18 & under and play a normal HS schedule,, they should be able to participate in post-season play. The all-male enrollment issue is valid, but until the ISHAA makes a rule covering it, you can't start looking at the B-G ratio of every school either.

It would be nice to know Woodward's rules for who's eligible to play. I'm sure they have some kind of code of conduct in place. Would a blue-chip player kicked out of Iowa City West/Ankeny yesterday be eligible to play for Woodward today?

The elite basketball boarding schools like Oak Hill Academy play 40+ games all over the country, so I don't think they care about participating in Virginia HS athletics, but what about regular prep/boarding schools.

Like Luke said, we're only discussing this because they're finally having some success.
(But interesting conversation though)
 
A simple fix on the enrollment would be to take their enrollment times 2 since they have all males. That's how IL classifies all-male schools. I also believe Ohio does their enrollment for all schools based on how many males are in the school. Midwest Academy is a school that sits a few miles outside of Keokuk and they have a sharing agreement with Keokuk for sports. However, their students are not eligible to play right away. In fact, most of them will be at the school for 2-3 years before they reach the level of the program that allows them to do so.
 
I believe Keokuk had a running back that played on their state championship team from the Midwest Academy School. He only stayed until football season was over and then moved on .. Seemed fishy at the time.
 
With the Woodward Academy only having males in the school, then I think it would be justified to have their PEDS multiplied by some factor.

Let's put this a different way. What if Dowling Catholic were to split themselves into separate boys and girls schools like they were many years ago. Their enrollment for this school year was 1085. Dividing that by 2.....then that would drop them down a class. Does that make sense to have them participate in Class 3A?

I realize the difference is that a normal school (Public or Private) has students there for the entire school year. The Woodward Academy (Clarinda Academy the same) has kids that might not be there for the entire year and might be moving in/out of the school based on different circumstances.
 
Luke, of course it does not come up, they have a place in the State Tournament, that is the whole point! They also beat a good R-S team! They might have fallen apart because of the extreme athleticism that WA has, not just because they fell apart late! Comparing WA to an Iowa Private School is not even the same. Private Schools Beds are the same as other schools, they typically have Iowa Kids that live in the same general area, and also the majority of them have not violated any laws/rule!
 
Phil Collins, I'll admit that to outsiders it probably does seem "fishy" but a lot of MW kids finish their programs at that time. I don't know how it works exactly, but the kids have to be close to done to even be eligible to play sports so sometimes it will time up that way to where they're done shortly after the fall sports season.
 
Two things that could fix the so called problems as mentioned in this post....First, make transfer student athletes sit out a whole year before being able to play at the new school, whether they move or not....Second, for classification purposes use only boys numbers for all schools. The number are collected, just use them. WA would be in a larger class based on that.
 
I think it's cool that they made it to state, but you are absolutely right about one major thing: 197 boys and they are a 2A school, that is not right! And yeah, critics will come out and complain about this or private schools, but if we are honest with ourselves, the public schools are put at such a disadvantage. It'd be wrong if there weren't people complaining. I will say, though, it will be fun to watch and see what the WA kids can do.

This post was edited on 3/2 1:06 PM by NeverReadTheTermsOfService
 
Reasonable people will all agree that what Woodward Academy has shouldn't be compared to Private schools. Transfers will always happen as people move or open enroll to other schools.....and rules are already set for those.

Enrollment is big the issue here. Woodward Academy has an advantage here because they have twice as many males as other schools they are going against. Put in a multiplier and it's an easy fix.
 
Max, there are troubled kids in regular schools as well. Guess what, if they break the rules they aren't eligible. Are you in favor of having zero accountability for students in regular schools as well, since they are as you say, "troubled"?
 
It's a different situation SayWhat. Going to WA is part of the process of fixing behavior, in other schools that process is taking away something they enjoy ex. sports. Unless of course you don't feel living away from your family, being accused of being troubled all of the time (making a mistake and troubled are different for the record), and losing people you become close to due to leaving school every few months as due punishment. Can't take everything away from them.

I'd reiterate that before you post a straight x2 multiplier on them, check to see if all student athletes are eligible. If they aren't, then the multiplier isn't necessary because they only have a set number of eligible students.
 
No, I disagree. It is the same issue. There are " troubled kids" in almost every school. Some of them very good athletes. Some would argue that athletics is the only way to keep them interested in school. Take away the Athletics and you lose the student. My personal belief is you are responsible for your own behavior. School athletics are extracurricular activities. I know a lot of schools have a three strikes policy. So you are ok with taking it away from those kids? But not who you want to claim are the more stigmatized? Because? Making a mistake and being troubled only differ by who is claiming what. Since when did lack of personal responsibility become ok if you are labeled with the pc term "troubled".
 
Guys, I have no idea what is best for these kids, what is troubled what is not troubled! I hope they take from WA a renewed lease on life! If they can roll into Des Moines and make a run at a championship, that would possibly give them the inspiration to do some great things in life! BUT, the association needs to look at how they allow these kind of schools to participate in State Events. How would this be, if a kid came to WA, wrestled and kept a 3 timer from being a 4 timer? They might not even have wrestling, but they do track! There should be some middle ground here!
 
You missed the point. Everybody starts with eligibility in a regular school. Here not everybody is eligible, at least not immediately. That's why the numbers may not be so far off that they need doubled. Or is that unclear?
 
Card, good point, but if AP has 102 boys and there is a party on the 4th of July, and 50 boys get in trouble, the beds docuement still reflects 102 boys on the roll!
 
With a school student conduct violation and sit out for what, a week? If a WA student gets in trouble at school they also have to sit out. Sports are just as much a privilege for them.
 
Public School first violation is normally 1/3 of the season/30 Days, 2nd Offense 2/3, these are normally Minor in Possession etc......
 
So let me get this straight, instead of celebrating a group of young men who are working to get their life in order and have just had a major accomplishment, probably one of the few they have ever experienced in their lives, we are going to bitch and moan because of a perceived unfairness about winning basketball games. This is just sad. I am willing to bet that any advantages Woodward Academy may have are met if not surpassed by disadvantages. Disadvantages which many of these kids have had since birth. To try and tear these kids down or take this opportunity away from them is just wrong on so many levels.
 
Sarcas, what about the kids from the schools that got beat by them, they worked hard, they played by the rules, they are classified fairly! Let them play regular season, figure out they are classified,

but we can't take something away from the kids that have followed the rules, and worked their whole lives to make it to state, to only get beat by kids that would be ineligible elsewhere are not classified correctly, and many of these kids are not even iowa kids!!!!!


We spend so much time in today's society applauding the underprivileged, those that are facing consequences that we fail to recognize and reward those that have followed the rules!
 
I believe they are following the rules the assoc. has given them? If not then there might be a problem but as of now I don't see one. You might want to write or call them if you want to complain about it!! I just don't understand the gripe of a team that plays and currently is a resident of IA that follows the guidelines the assoc. has given is doing anything wrong. I will stand up and cheer for them as they are definetly the underdog! Go Knights!!!!
 
Yeah, I am sure the kids at WA didn't work hard at all to make it to state. If Woodward Academy was breaking the rules they wouldn't be at state right now. But I guess it isn't fair. Well, life isn't fair. If life was fair kids wouldn't have to live in poverty. If life was fair we wouldn't have the growing amount of broken homes we currently do. If life was fair kids wouldn't have to grow up without a dad. If life was fair kids wouldn't be exposed to violence at an early age. If you think high school basketball is unfair try living the life some of these kids have had to live.

Life has not been fair to many of these kids for a long time. I realize they have made the choices to got them there, but the reality is most juvenile delinquents come from life situations completely our of their control which lead to their actions. Now they are being punished for those actions while learning how to break the influences and conditioning that got them in trouble in the first place. Basketball is helping them to do that. Do you really think that if these kids had a choice between making the state basketball tournament or having a normal childhood they would ever pick the basketball?

Also I really think you are drastically overestimating the advantage they actually have. To hear you talk they would be a basketball powerhouse winning year after year. This is the first time to state and they needed a huge late run to even get it. It actually is a pretty great achievement considering how little time these kids have been playing together and all the other distractions they have had in life. They don't get to just live for basketball as many of their peers do.

You seem to be focusing on one aspect of this whole thing while ignoring huge obstacles these kids have had to overcome. Obstacles many kids from many places don't have to face. Your last statement is so ridiculous I don't even know what to do with it. You clearly come from a place of privilege. If you really think the underprivileged in our society are coming out on top you are drastically mistaken. Our society still gives every possible advantage to those who have, don't worry about that. I am sorry that doesn't feel fair to you. Now imagine what people feel like whose whole life is that way, not just with high school basketball.
 
It is a shame that they make the first trip to the state tournament and yet people would see to it they were never given the chance.

"My team lost and those kids did bad things in the past so they shouldn't be allowed..."

Get over yourself.
 
and alas it becomes personable, nice move Max! (Oh, and I have no dog in the fight). So quickly, posts become forgotten, I was pretty complimentary and hopeful towards WA, threw out 3 interesting points and Max comes out with the "get over yourself",
 
Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of the internal rules where the kids at WA get to play when they come to WA? People talked about earning the chance to play. Is this the case at WA?
Most of the discussion is not about the kids on this team but in general the concept of an all boys school that is classified only by the boys and maybe should be up a class, and kids that would have violated most eligibility rules in most other school and would not be playing (example- two kids at Roosevelt missing most of the season), and the transfer in of kids that could play right away (yes the current rule is followed here) but should it be change. So no should be down on these kids, just some things that got them there, not the kids themselves....SHOULD SOME RULES BE CHANGED?
 
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