What do you think here?
- Thread starter bigfridaynite
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Of course there will be no reduction of playoff rounds...not when the state gets their money from those games. But they have no issue taking a game away from the schools during the regular season, when the profits go to the schools. That's one home game every other year, for every team.
I see little chance they push the playoffs back in November. Northern Iowa already bends over backwards, allowing them to have two consecutive weekends toward the end of the Panthers season. The schools will go ape shit bananas if the state tries to take that extra game away from everybody. My guess is the season will get pushed a week earlier, which isn't that big of a deal in my eyes. They just need to address the problems with possible high heat and humidity during those first couple of weeks and make some provisions about later starts, maybe extending timeouts and change of possession another 30 seconds or maybe implementing a two minute "halftime" at the first game stoppage after the 6-minute mark during the first two quarters.
I see little chance they push the playoffs back in November. Northern Iowa already bends over backwards, allowing them to have two consecutive weekends toward the end of the Panthers season. The schools will go ape shit bananas if the state tries to take that extra game away from everybody. My guess is the season will get pushed a week earlier, which isn't that big of a deal in my eyes. They just need to address the problems with possible high heat and humidity during those first couple of weeks and make some provisions about later starts, maybe extending timeouts and change of possession another 30 seconds or maybe implementing a two minute "halftime" at the first game stoppage after the 6-minute mark during the first two quarters.
I completely opposed to going to the 8 game schedule mainly due to the loss to profit for the schools, in case the state wants to give more money to host schools, and pay the away team for playing the playoff game then this is not the answer.
Does anyone have a link that lists the salaries of people like Wulkow, their not listed on the Registers list of state employees
Does anyone have a link that lists the salaries of people like Wulkow, their not listed on the Registers list of state employees
I said earlier this fall that moving the start of the season to Week Zero would be the best way to space out the playoff rounds. If that means a few 8-man teams only get 8 games because of program mergers, so be it. Better a few teams than the entire state.
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Posted from Rivals Mobile
On the one hand, I understand the concern about the compressed playoffs. You've got games Friday-Wednesday-Monday-Friday, which is tough physically.
On the other hand, for the state to take away a home game every other year for EVERY football school in the state - that just ain't right. Doesn't mean they won't do it (I have never claimed to read the minds of the IAHSAA), but it's taking money right out of school budgets.
Plus, look how many teams are actually affected by the compressed playoffs. Is it 192 teams in the playoffs (32 x 6 classes)? Obviously all 192 have the first Friday-Wednesday turnaround. Then 96 get the Wednesday-Monday turnaround, and just 48 face the Monday-Friday turnaround. Is addressing that worth costing every school statewide one home game?
I have heard there's a possibility of having the non-playoff qualifiers still play a ninth game, on the Friday of the first round playoffs. This would provide a gate for those who don't make the playoffs, and somewhat address the economic impact. I am not positive the state would be able to think outside the box and actually pull that off, though.
I am in line with screwloose and pax. I think the two most likely outcomes are no change at all, or starting the season for everybody Week 0. But I am not confident enough in my mind-reading of state officials to put any money on that.
(Just as an aside, I saw this same article on the Des Moines Register website. One of the commenters there is trying to make the case that youth and high school football is child abuse. Seriously.)
This post was edited on 1/16 11:23 AM by KidSilverhair
On the other hand, for the state to take away a home game every other year for EVERY football school in the state - that just ain't right. Doesn't mean they won't do it (I have never claimed to read the minds of the IAHSAA), but it's taking money right out of school budgets.
Plus, look how many teams are actually affected by the compressed playoffs. Is it 192 teams in the playoffs (32 x 6 classes)? Obviously all 192 have the first Friday-Wednesday turnaround. Then 96 get the Wednesday-Monday turnaround, and just 48 face the Monday-Friday turnaround. Is addressing that worth costing every school statewide one home game?
I have heard there's a possibility of having the non-playoff qualifiers still play a ninth game, on the Friday of the first round playoffs. This would provide a gate for those who don't make the playoffs, and somewhat address the economic impact. I am not positive the state would be able to think outside the box and actually pull that off, though.
I am in line with screwloose and pax. I think the two most likely outcomes are no change at all, or starting the season for everybody Week 0. But I am not confident enough in my mind-reading of state officials to put any money on that.
(Just as an aside, I saw this same article on the Des Moines Register website. One of the commenters there is trying to make the case that youth and high school football is child abuse. Seriously.)
This post was edited on 1/16 11:23 AM by KidSilverhair
But why is it then only the "non-playoff qualifiers" that get the benefit of an extra gate?? That doesn't make much sense either. Either leave it the way it is because, as you stated, a complete run through the playoffs ultimately affects a relatively small amount of schools. OR move the season up a week and everyone plays their first game Week 0.
That will be really disappointing if the IHSAA and Board of Control reduce the schedule to 8 games, thus reducing activities budgets which will affect every student that participates in extra-curricular activities across the entire state.
A likely result I could see of reducing the football schedule to 8 games would be all schools across the state increase the admission to regular season games in order to make up for the lost revenue.
That will be really disappointing if the IHSAA and Board of Control reduce the schedule to 8 games, thus reducing activities budgets which will affect every student that participates in extra-curricular activities across the entire state.
A likely result I could see of reducing the football schedule to 8 games would be all schools across the state increase the admission to regular season games in order to make up for the lost revenue.
How about one less playoff round? I know that IHSAA would not implement this because of the lost revenue for them but it is pretty ridiculous when 2-7 or 3-6 teams make the playoffs. I am not sure how big the gates are when 2-7 teams play an undefeated #1 seed. Not only that, the Wed-Mon-Fri schedule is difficult on any team. I am not aware of any nearby state that plays three football playoff games within 10 days.
You're right. That's the absolute best answer - cut the playoff field back to 16, you're back to just four playoff rounds, you still have 9 regular season games, and they're all on Fridays.
If only the state would actually do that. But they won't. The choice will be either continue the compressed playoff schedule, which really only affects about a third of football-playing schools once you're beyond that first round; or cut a game from the season, costing school athletic budgets a gate and costing players and fans the opportunity for that ninth game.
This post was edited on 1/16 4:21 PM by KidSilverhair
Just a open thought but most Coaches and players probably would admit by late fall and having no chance to make playoffs 8 games would be just fine.
That last week can be very wet and cold.
That last week can be very wet and cold.
That's a valid thought, I suppose. I guess that's referring to the idea of non-playoff teams getting matched up for a ninth game the same week the playoffs start. I do know the ADs and the school superintendents would admit they would miss the opportunity to sell tickets and concessions for five home games every other year, instead of just four every year.
Let's look at the football regular season in surrounding states (I'm going by school records on MaxPreps, so it's only educated guesses):
Missouri - looks like 10 games is the standard season (a few schools play only 9)
Illinois - everybody plays at least 10 games
Wisconsin - almost everybody plays 10 games (I'm guessing the season is 9, but all but the last-place team in each division gets a playoff game)
Minnesota - 9 games
South Dakota - 8 or 9 games, depending on the school
Nebraska - big schools play 9, smaller schools play 8
So Iowa going to 8 wouldn't be terrible, but it seems like a step back.
Now let's look at the reason given for considering the change: "player safety," specifically the Friday-Wednesday-Monday-Friday playoff gauntlet. As I've said before, once you get through the Friday-Wednesday first round, fewer than 100 teams statewide actually have to deal with the compressed playoff schedule. Also, there's an OBVIOUS solution to getting rid of the "four games in two weeks" issue: cut down the playoffs to 16 qualifiers.
I suppose when the IAHSAA weighs the scales of "player safety" vs. "playoff game income," it's the money that ends up tipping the scales. Getting rid of one regular season game for every school in the state, only so they can keep their five-round playoff scheme going ... that doesn't tell me the Association has "player safety" foremost in their minds.
And yes, if you can't tell, the more I think about this, the more it ticks me off. I don't think it's a good idea to cut down the regular season, especially when the same goal (eliminating the compressed playoffs) could be done with the stroke of a pen and returning to the same size playoff field we had only six years ago. Too bad that easy fix would cost the IAHSAA money, though, right?
This post was edited on 1/16 7:12 PM by KidSilverhair
This post was edited on 1/16 7:15 PM by KidSilverhair
The question I continue to ask is why does the state want the playoffs to end so quickly? Many states end Thanksgiving and some even the first weekend of December. WHY the RUSH?
A couple of reasons - you're already bumping up against wrestling and basketball now, with the championships before Thanksgiving. Another would be availability of the Dome.
I don't know. I was going to add that the interference with winter sports only seriously affects the 12 or 24 schools that advance to the semifinals, so is it that big a deal? That may be how other states look at it. Frankly, the availability of the Dome is probably a bigger factor. If UNI makes the FCS playoffs, they will not want to give up their facilities for high school games.
I don't have a lot of knowledge how other states handle their playoffs. I think Illinois goes into December, maybe. Nebraska finished Thanksgiving week this year (the big school championship game was actually that Tuesday, of all days). They also had about a ten-day gap between the semifinal and the championship, so they must start a week earlier.
This post was edited on 1/17 6:40 AM by KidSilverhair
I don't have a lot of knowledge how other states handle their playoffs. I think Illinois goes into December, maybe. Nebraska finished Thanksgiving week this year (the big school championship game was actually that Tuesday, of all days). They also had about a ten-day gap between the semifinal and the championship, so they must start a week earlier.
This post was edited on 1/17 6:40 AM by KidSilverhair
Just did a little research. Minnesota, Illinois and Nebraska all had their championships the last week of November (Thanksgiving week last year). Wisconsin's championships were the same as Iowa's, the week before Thanksgiving ... they were able to do a 9-game season and five playoff rounds.
Adding some more info:
Illinois and Missouri have 9 regular season games and five playoff rounds. They started the last week of August and ended the last week of November (same number of games as Iowa, but one extra week to play).
Wisconsin had 9 regular season games and five playoff rounds. They started the third week of August (Week 0 in Iowa) and ended the week before Thanksgiving (same number of games as Iowa, with one extra week to play).
Minnesota actually has only 8 regular season games and five rounds of playoffs, matching what this current proposal in Iowa would be. They started the last week of August (same as Iowa) but ended the last week of November (looks like an open week between semifinals and championship).
South Dakota has only 8 regular season games and just four rounds of playoffs. They started the last week of August and actually wrapped up in mid-November, a week prior to Iowa's championship round.
So that's the scoop with neighboring states. Wisconsin starts a week earlier to get 9 games in. Missouri, Illinois and big schools in Nebraska go a week later to get 9 games in. Minnesota and South Dakota have 8-game schedules.
This post was edited on 1/17 8:29 AM by KidSilverhair
Adding some more info:
Illinois and Missouri have 9 regular season games and five playoff rounds. They started the last week of August and ended the last week of November (same number of games as Iowa, but one extra week to play).
Wisconsin had 9 regular season games and five playoff rounds. They started the third week of August (Week 0 in Iowa) and ended the week before Thanksgiving (same number of games as Iowa, with one extra week to play).
Minnesota actually has only 8 regular season games and five rounds of playoffs, matching what this current proposal in Iowa would be. They started the last week of August (same as Iowa) but ended the last week of November (looks like an open week between semifinals and championship).
South Dakota has only 8 regular season games and just four rounds of playoffs. They started the last week of August and actually wrapped up in mid-November, a week prior to Iowa's championship round.
So that's the scoop with neighboring states. Wisconsin starts a week earlier to get 9 games in. Missouri, Illinois and big schools in Nebraska go a week later to get 9 games in. Minnesota and South Dakota have 8-game schedules.
This post was edited on 1/17 8:29 AM by KidSilverhair
How about this, you play the week 9 game on Thursday
Then playoffs go
Tuesday 4 days in between
Monday 5 days in between
Saturday 4 days in between
Thursday, Friday, Saturday 4-6 days in between
Thursday, Friday 5-6 days in between
essentially what this does is gets rid of the only having 3 between the round of 16 and 8, and eliminates the Wednesday night game which for most schools falls on "family night", is this perfect no but I think it is better than the current system with out eliminating a regular season game. I know that Minnesota allows its schools to have the last regular season game on Wednesday or Thursday.
Then playoffs go
Tuesday 4 days in between
Monday 5 days in between
Saturday 4 days in between
Thursday, Friday, Saturday 4-6 days in between
Thursday, Friday 5-6 days in between
essentially what this does is gets rid of the only having 3 between the round of 16 and 8, and eliminates the Wednesday night game which for most schools falls on "family night", is this perfect no but I think it is better than the current system with out eliminating a regular season game. I know that Minnesota allows its schools to have the last regular season game on Wednesday or Thursday.
That's not a terrible idea. I think it would work fine to have Week 9 be on Thursday. You could leave Round 1 on Wednesday (I don't think the family night issue bothers the state at all, really) which gives you five days. Round 2 on Monday still gives you four days, then moving Round 3 to Saturday would give you another four days, instead of the present three-day turnaround between rounds 2 and 3 (which, again, affects only 48 teams in the entire state).
There are ways to address the "player safety" issue of the compressed playoffs without taking away a regular season game and taking money away from school activity budgets. How creative will the IAHSAA be? I will tell you, I am not holding my breath.
There are ways to address the "player safety" issue of the compressed playoffs without taking away a regular season game and taking money away from school activity budgets. How creative will the IAHSAA be? I will tell you, I am not holding my breath.
I am from Ohio where I coached for 15 years. They play state finals first weekend in December. Like it has been stated already, it only affects 24 schools over Thanksgiving and 12 schools out of over 700 that play football. If you have to, you reschedule early basketball games/wrestling matches or play with what you have ready. Not a big deal. The state is allowing UNI to dictate when we can play. Ohio, Illinois and soon to be Minnesota until new dome is built play outdoors.
I really like this idea. But what if you took it a week further, or prior, in this instance.
Play Week 8 on Thursday.
-- 5 days rest --
Play Week 9 on Wednesday.
-- 4 days rest --
Play First Round on Monday.
-- 4 days rest --
Play Second Round on Saturday.
-- 5 days rest --
Play Quarterfinals on Friday.
-- 5/6 days rest --
Play Eight-Man / Class A / Class 4A Semifinals on Friday and Class 1A / Class 2A / Class 3A Semifinals on Saturday.
-- 5 days rest --
Play Eight-Man / Class A / Class 4A Championships on Friday and Class 1A / Class 2A / Class 3A Championships on Saturday.
I think the sentiment about Northern Iowa dictating when the state uses the Dome is very off base. It is, in fact, called the UNI(University of Northern Iowa)-Dome. That is their home. The fact that the university allows the state to schedule games there two weekends at the end of their regular season is pretty damn gracious if you ask me. The Panthers never have the benefit of having back-to-back games at home to close out the regular season. Not to mention, they are a dome team and they give up the chance at having those home games to play on the road, outdoors(which is outlandish, yes - but it's what their team is), at a time of year when wins and losses are exemplified towards an already biased FCS Playoff Committee. Don't be casting any fault on Northern Iowa about the state high school playoffs.
This post was edited on 1/17 9:17 AM by screwloose
So is it about the kids or about the money? I am confused, I have heard staunch objection to the short turn-around for playoffs and then hear folks complain that "it's all about the money"....
It depends on who's talking. We've already outlined several ways to keep 9 regular season games and protect players from too-fast playoff turnarounds. It can be done. It's not simply a choice between "We have to cut a game or else kids will die from 3-day turnarounds! Player safety!"
I think you've seen several people on this board present ideas that would reduce or eliminate the compressed playoffs, yet continue to allow the kids a full 9-game season and keep school activity budgets where they are. The state seems to be making it a black-and-white choice between the schools keeping that fifth home game and forcing quick turnarounds in the playoffs. There's lots of options, and you can actually have BOTH, with a little creative thought.
Here's another, extremely simple idea. Keep everything as it is, but move the compressed part of the playoffs back. Play Round 1 on Friday a full week after Week 9. That gives all 192 playoff participants a full week of prep. Then play your Round 2 on the next Wednesday ... a four-day turnaround, but it only affects 96 teams. Round 3 on Monday, only 48 teams have that quick turn. Then you have the semifinals in the Dome on Friday (or Saturday), with just the last 24 teams facing that short week.
Yes,a big drawback of that is shorter time to prepare for much tougher competition ... but everybody who advances is in the same boat. And far fewer athletes have to cope with the compressed schedule, as half of them are done after Round 1.
I also agree with screwloose about the Dome ... UNI is under no obligation to jack their schedule around to accommodate high school football. The IAHSAA has hitched their playoff wagon to the Dome and indoor football for the semis and championships (which I think is a good thing overall), but if the state decides it will work better for "player safety" to extend a week later into November, wouldn't that take precedence over the availability of a facility? There are other stadiums in Iowa ... yes, outdoor stadiums, I grant you, but Illinois and Nebraska and Wisconsin (and Minnesota, for the next couple of years) play their championships outdoors during the last two weeks in November. What are we, wimps?
This post was edited on 1/17 12:05 PM by KidSilverhair
I think you've seen several people on this board present ideas that would reduce or eliminate the compressed playoffs, yet continue to allow the kids a full 9-game season and keep school activity budgets where they are. The state seems to be making it a black-and-white choice between the schools keeping that fifth home game and forcing quick turnarounds in the playoffs. There's lots of options, and you can actually have BOTH, with a little creative thought.
Here's another, extremely simple idea. Keep everything as it is, but move the compressed part of the playoffs back. Play Round 1 on Friday a full week after Week 9. That gives all 192 playoff participants a full week of prep. Then play your Round 2 on the next Wednesday ... a four-day turnaround, but it only affects 96 teams. Round 3 on Monday, only 48 teams have that quick turn. Then you have the semifinals in the Dome on Friday (or Saturday), with just the last 24 teams facing that short week.
Yes,a big drawback of that is shorter time to prepare for much tougher competition ... but everybody who advances is in the same boat. And far fewer athletes have to cope with the compressed schedule, as half of them are done after Round 1.
I also agree with screwloose about the Dome ... UNI is under no obligation to jack their schedule around to accommodate high school football. The IAHSAA has hitched their playoff wagon to the Dome and indoor football for the semis and championships (which I think is a good thing overall), but if the state decides it will work better for "player safety" to extend a week later into November, wouldn't that take precedence over the availability of a facility? There are other stadiums in Iowa ... yes, outdoor stadiums, I grant you, but Illinois and Nebraska and Wisconsin (and Minnesota, for the next couple of years) play their championships outdoors during the last two weeks in November. What are we, wimps?
This post was edited on 1/17 12:05 PM by KidSilverhair
Totally agree with extending playoffs so you play one game a week and Championship game towards end of November and also agree with why does it have to be indoors? As Kid said, other states play their title games the last two weeks of November and their games are outdoors. So fans may have to put on a few more clothes to watch a game that late - as Kid also said, what are we wimps?
I bet they could close the roof at Miller Park in Milwaukee and configure the field well enough for high school football.
The key word being "available." If the problem the IAHSAA has with with extending the playoffs into Thanksgiving week is the availability of the UNI Dome ... that's a surmountable problem. Saying "We can't go any later with the playoffs because we can't use the dome" is a bad reason. There are plenty of suitable stadiums available, they just happen to be open-air. AND, if the state keeps using "player safety" as their reasoning for wanting to get rid of the compressed playoff schedule, wouldn't that take precedence over whether or not you can play the championship indoors? Or is the dome such a big deal that you'd rather take ticket money away from your member schools by eliminating a game out of the regular season?
With the exceptions of Minnesota and South Dakota, every other neighboring state makes a 9-game regular season work, with playoff games a week apart. Wisconsin starts a week early, with two games in August (and that's a state that doesn't start classes until after Labor Day!). Illinois, Nebraska and Missouri have their championships Thanksgiving week. Heck, even Minnesota does that with only 8 regular season games, as they have a week off during the playoffs. You can make this work, IAHSAA, without cutting the season.
The state is not dumb. They are stating the reason they are considering it is for "player safety". It's a nice little theory they can hide behind. What's the secondary reason, you ask? Greed, of course. They know the gates at the games on the "traditional" Friday nights are going to be much larger than the gates on a Wednesday and Monday night. I think there will be a change for sure, I'm leaning towards the start being week 0 as opposed the 8 game schedule but we shall see very soon here.
The IAHSAA board decided to stick with the 9-game season for the next two years. They also plan to collect information on injuries and study the compressed playoff schedule in 2014-15, with the idea of perhaps bringing this up again in two years ... so it appears there will be no move to start the season earlier, or extend the playoffs later. They are going to continue the Wednesday-Monday-Friday playoffs for the next two seasons.
The board also decided to do away with the "sister district" playoff format, and instead set up playoff brackets based more on distance between opponents. For instance, a 4th place finisher in District A may end up playing the District C champion, while the District A champion plays the 4th place team in District B. The state will also re-set the playoff opponents after each round, again based on distance. It won't be a set bracket where winners know they will face the winner of Game B .. instead they might end up facing the winner of Game C or D if the travel would be less.
The board also decided to do away with the "sister district" playoff format, and instead set up playoff brackets based more on distance between opponents. For instance, a 4th place finisher in District A may end up playing the District C champion, while the District A champion plays the 4th place team in District B. The state will also re-set the playoff opponents after each round, again based on distance. It won't be a set bracket where winners know they will face the winner of Game B .. instead they might end up facing the winner of Game C or D if the travel would be less.
If safety is a concern, why does the State not require the concussion helmets that Welker wears? Okay, so he looks like "Dark Helmet" from Space Balls but they are supposed to help...
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