With 7 districts sending 14 automatic qualifiers to the playoffs, what is the criteria for selecting the other two teams?
Selection of Wild card team for 3A playoffs?
- Thread starter EddieVedderPJ20
- Start date
From the state site:
7. District AlignmentClasses 3A, 2A, 1A and A: 7 districts apiece with 8 teams in each district. District champion and District runner-up would automatically qualify and 2 “wild card” teams would be qualify based on set criteria.
Criteria for Determining “wild card” Selection
a. Anyone who is considered a district champion (anyone in a 3 or 4 way tie)
b. District record
c. Head to head competition (District or non-district)
d. Tie Breaker Point Differential +/- 17
e. Alphabetical Draw each year- For 2016 we will start with the letter “K” K through Z and then A through J.
Class 4A and 8 Player: 8 districts apiece. District champion and District runner-up would automatically qualify to create the 16 qualifiers.
8. The 17-point tiebreaker system is the difference in score between Team A and Team B. EXAMPLE: (Team A--20, Team B- 3. Team A gets plus 17 points and Team B gets minus 17 points.) Seventeen points is the maximum number of positive or negative points that a team may receive. This replaces the 13-point tiebreaker previously used.
7. District AlignmentClasses 3A, 2A, 1A and A: 7 districts apiece with 8 teams in each district. District champion and District runner-up would automatically qualify and 2 “wild card” teams would be qualify based on set criteria.
Criteria for Determining “wild card” Selection
a. Anyone who is considered a district champion (anyone in a 3 or 4 way tie)
b. District record
c. Head to head competition (District or non-district)
d. Tie Breaker Point Differential +/- 17
e. Alphabetical Draw each year- For 2016 we will start with the letter “K” K through Z and then A through J.
Class 4A and 8 Player: 8 districts apiece. District champion and District runner-up would automatically qualify to create the 16 qualifiers.
8. The 17-point tiebreaker system is the difference in score between Team A and Team B. EXAMPLE: (Team A--20, Team B- 3. Team A gets plus 17 points and Team B gets minus 17 points.) Seventeen points is the maximum number of positive or negative points that a team may receive. This replaces the 13-point tiebreaker previously used.
so schools like Harlan or others would not get credit for playing a top rated 4A School like LC? If that's the case play down!
I can't believe it's not. I would take any team that played up and had a very close game ( win or loose) against a top caliber team vs a blowout over a team with a loosing season
. If they simply go by record they are opening up a can of worms that sucks for everyone. I am sure strength of schedule has something to do with it... if not Harlan redo your schedule! Just using Harlan as an example
. If they simply go by record they are opening up a can of worms that sucks for everyone. I am sure strength of schedule has something to do with it... if not Harlan redo your schedule! Just using Harlan as an example
Harlan vs. LC isn't considered because it's not a district game. All of the criteria are based on district performance. 5-2 is going to be the minimum district record needed to even sniff the possibility of a playoff spot.
If they only consider District games it makes more sense. I'm not sold on the changes but looking at last year and having all the teams in the play offs probably doesn't make sense either.
The word is that the state wants to keep the non-district games out of the equation so that we can still get quality non-district match ups , otherwise everybody might be tempted to play down to get the "W". It makes sense. Hopefully the wild card choices will be very apparent by the end of the season. That would make things better. If you tie for a district championship, you should go to the playoffs...period. That one makes perfect sense. Will get a bit muddied after that!
Yep. The IHSAA has insisted all along that only district games are going to matter for playoff qualifying (with the one small exception here of the head-to-head results in determining the wild cards; by definition that would mean a non-district head-to-head result). They aren't considering cross-class games at all.
And here's why: if Harlan, say, got a point bump for playing up and scheduling 4A Lewis Central, that would also mean LC gets points taken away because they played down. If you had a system like that in place, you'd be hard-pressed to find any team willing to play down in their non-district schedule. Although, perhaps, since 4A qualifying is lots simpler, maybe that wouldn't be a factor. It would be in the other classes, though (would a 3A want to play a 2A if it meant they lost out on playoff points?).
I am also really interested to see how this wild-card system works out. I know it's still early in the season, but right now there are exactly 16 teams with 2-0 district records.
And here's why: if Harlan, say, got a point bump for playing up and scheduling 4A Lewis Central, that would also mean LC gets points taken away because they played down. If you had a system like that in place, you'd be hard-pressed to find any team willing to play down in their non-district schedule. Although, perhaps, since 4A qualifying is lots simpler, maybe that wouldn't be a factor. It would be in the other classes, though (would a 3A want to play a 2A if it meant they lost out on playoff points?).
I am also really interested to see how this wild-card system works out. I know it's still early in the season, but right now there are exactly 16 teams with 2-0 district records.
would have been nice if all classes were similar and 4A would have some at large qualifiers as well since the districts can be lopsided and the idea is to get the best teams in the playoffs.
I really hate to say it, but just play a 7 week season. Start with district play and then after the 7 games. Pair the teams up in week 8 (everyone) and then have the winners move on. Then week 9 pair them up again. If it works right it should go 56 week 8, 28 week 9, and then 14 first rd playoffs.
I realize this wouldn't work because there would be some "long trips" but oh well its on a Friday night. Also it allows everyone a chance to be "in" the playoffs. I know it does cut out 2 games, but then you wouldn't have the "non-district" scheduling BS that you hear. Also it would allow teams to play some different teams and i realize the #1 vs #56 would be a blood bath. But you never know.
I just think the way the IAHSAA has it set up now, there are going to be 2-3 teams left at home this year that deserved to be in.
I realize this wouldn't work because there would be some "long trips" but oh well its on a Friday night. Also it allows everyone a chance to be "in" the playoffs. I know it does cut out 2 games, but then you wouldn't have the "non-district" scheduling BS that you hear. Also it would allow teams to play some different teams and i realize the #1 vs #56 would be a blood bath. But you never know.
I just think the way the IAHSAA has it set up now, there are going to be 2-3 teams left at home this year that deserved to be in.
what sucks is when you have a district that's really loaded with 3-4 good teams, hate the way it's set up now.
Its gonna be a mess for the two at large bids. Do you all think there will be a handful of teams at 5-2 that don't finish in the top two in the district and a lot of 5-3 teams all tied for third. Gonna be a mess and some pissed off people. The alphabet thing is a joke.
Well, we'll see. I doubt the head-to-head will really come into play: you'd have to be really lucky for a non-district game in week 1 or 2 to end up matching a couple of wild-card contenders. It's of course possible to have a bunch of teams all with the same district records, but since we're looking statewide for tiebreakers rather than just in-district, maybe that 17-point rule will be more of a decider. If it comes down to alphabet, yeah, that's kind of crappy - do I remember it right, the state is going to draw a random letter each spring to start that with?
(In the old days, Xavier always knew they'd win every alphabetical tiebreaker some years, and lose every one alternating years. Made things simple for them.)
The ideal for the state, of course, is to have two and only two districts with a three-way tie for the top. Your wild cards are done and done in that case. If you happen to have more than two districts with a three-way tie, well, that's probably their worst-case scenario. You hate to tell someone who tied for their district championship, sorry, no playoffs for you. You can justify making a choice between third-place finishers, but you know in Boone they are crossing their fingers hoping for fewer than three districts with ties at the top - not just in 3A, but all the way down to A.
(In the old days, Xavier always knew they'd win every alphabetical tiebreaker some years, and lose every one alternating years. Made things simple for them.)
The ideal for the state, of course, is to have two and only two districts with a three-way tie for the top. Your wild cards are done and done in that case. If you happen to have more than two districts with a three-way tie, well, that's probably their worst-case scenario. You hate to tell someone who tied for their district championship, sorry, no playoffs for you. You can justify making a choice between third-place finishers, but you know in Boone they are crossing their fingers hoping for fewer than three districts with ties at the top - not just in 3A, but all the way down to A.
Does the state have rules on how the 8th number one seed will be chosen? Same criteria as the wild card teams. Could be seven 8-1 teams
After hearing all this, just go back to the old way of having 4 teams per district, someone is going to get a royal screw job under the new format.
It would really disappoint me if they can't figure out how to get back to a 32 team playoff without reducing the regular season. If you can't keep a 9 game/week regular season, then stay at 16 playoff teams.
What everyone seems to forget or choose to ignore is that for every week you reduce the regular season, you are reducing the number of lower level (9th, 10th or JV) games that could be scheduled as well. So while I understand that under many proposals every varsity team in the state would get at least 8 games, however one chooses to shorten the season is taking away playing opportunities for the younger kids to play and improve with games as well as weeks of practice.
Additionally, those extra "playoff" games if everyone makes the playoffs or even if they go back to 32 team playoffs after a reduced regular season (either 7 or 8 games) takes money out of the individual school districts and gives it to the IHSAA. That is thousands and some times tens of thousands of dollars lost for an athletic budget for 1 home game. That is A LOT to sacrifice in the name of making everyone feel good by making the "playoffs". Either leave the playoffs as 16 teams following a 9 game regular season OR find a way to keep a 9 game regular season (so no opportunities to play are taken away from any player grades 9-12) while expanding back to 32 teams. Any other option is taking games away from every single kid playing football in the name of a few 3-6, 4-5, or 5-4 teams to say they made the "playoffs".
Finally, there is no perfect system for choosing playoff qualifiers. When it was 2 qualifiers out of 8 districts, all the 3rd place teams complained. When it was the top 4 from every district, people were complaining that it was too watered down and 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, 4-5, 5-4 teams didn't deserve to be in the playoffs. But we shouldn't be so willing to sacrifice the regular season in the name of "fixing" the playoffs. There are smart people out there that should be able to figure this out if they want to expand the playoffs...9 game regular season followed by a 32 team playoff.
A kinda crazy thought I had a while back when we were discussing changes to the playoff schedule:
Have 32 qualifiers, so five rounds of playoff games. In order to keep the playoff games a week apart, instead of the insane Wednesday-Monday-Friday death march of the past, you could try something outside the box. Everybody schedules 8 games; that's how the playoff qualifiers are set, you start at Week One just like now, and schedule your district/non-district through Week Eight. Week Nine is the first round of playoffs - but all the non-qualifiers still play that week as well. The state would have to match up the teams for those games, going on a geographic basis so nobody has to travel too far, but it leaves every school in the state with at least 9 games and allows for the JV/9th/10th grade games as well.
Sure this isn't perfect. Some of those Week Nine games will probably have to include long travel. Will matchups of teams perceived as "losing" (not in the playoffs) get a good turnout of fans? What kind of crazy season do you have when you don't even know who you're playing (or where) for the last game?
But it was just a thought. It's the only way I could think of to keep five rounds of playoffs with a full week in between each round, give everybody a chance at 9 games, and still fit the season in from the end of August to the week before Thanksgiving, which is apparently the requirement.
Have 32 qualifiers, so five rounds of playoff games. In order to keep the playoff games a week apart, instead of the insane Wednesday-Monday-Friday death march of the past, you could try something outside the box. Everybody schedules 8 games; that's how the playoff qualifiers are set, you start at Week One just like now, and schedule your district/non-district through Week Eight. Week Nine is the first round of playoffs - but all the non-qualifiers still play that week as well. The state would have to match up the teams for those games, going on a geographic basis so nobody has to travel too far, but it leaves every school in the state with at least 9 games and allows for the JV/9th/10th grade games as well.
Sure this isn't perfect. Some of those Week Nine games will probably have to include long travel. Will matchups of teams perceived as "losing" (not in the playoffs) get a good turnout of fans? What kind of crazy season do you have when you don't even know who you're playing (or where) for the last game?
But it was just a thought. It's the only way I could think of to keep five rounds of playoffs with a full week in between each round, give everybody a chance at 9 games, and still fit the season in from the end of August to the week before Thanksgiving, which is apparently the requirement.
This is a good question. As far as I know, no information has been sent out. Since there are seven districts but eight first-round games, there would have to be one of those that matched up teams that didn't win their district (barring ties, of course).
Yes, I've had that thought as well so thank you for sharing that idea, but we still have the problem of losing revenue and those teams not in the playoffs, who gets the revenue for those games. Also, the teams going into the actual playoffs would most likely lose all lower level games. This proposal in reality is still an 8 game regular season, so all lower level games would lose a week of their season.
If you finish 5-2 with losses to the two teams above you in the district, is that considered a screw job? Or is it considered your own fault for not getting it done on the field?
a bit of both, it all depends on how even the districts are set up, if one of two districts are stacked as a few were last year and others are weak then it's a screw job.
Yeah, it's an 8-game season, sort of. Except everybody is guaranteed 9 games. They're not guaranteed 5 home gates, since the state gets the money for the ones that get in the playoffs. I'm not sure what you mean by "teams going into the actual playoffs would most likely lose all lower level games." I just don't understand what you're saying there.
Look, the simple fact is there's only 13 Fridays from the last week of August through the week before Thanksgiving. You can't fit 9 regular season games and 5 rounds of playoffs in that space and still keep a week between games. It's physics. Or is it math? Calculus? It's been a long time since I've been in school ... You could try starting the season the week before school starts. Or play the semifinal/championship rounds somewhere other than the UNI Dome. Both of those, while not impossible, have some huge drawbacks. But I don't know of any other way to fit 14 weeks of football into 13 Fridays.
While I agree that it sucks to cut the lower levels # of games down. I think having a 7 or 8 game regular season is the best way. There have been multiple lower level JV/Freshmen games cancelled because of low #'s or players playing up on Varsity and can only play 2 quarters before the varsity contest. I also have been hearing of games being cancelled because no officials want to work the lower levels or there are other activities going on.
I would say go to a 7 game schedule and personally that's all the lower levels need. They shouldn't play a "full" schedule like the varsity. There is no need for kids in JH/Freshman to be playing 9-10 games like the Varsity. There should also be a rule that all lower level games be played during the week and not on weekends or Friday nights. I have attended a few games games this year and every time the 1st game goes long. The varsity game starts at like 8pm and doesn't end until 10:30.
Id say a 7 game season w/all 56 making it to the 1st round. I mean what other sport does your regular season determine if you get to make it to state? Baseball? Basketball? Volleyball? Wrestling? I think football is the only one.
Just watched the Indiana high school selection show on a Comcast station. Pretty cool that every school makes it. They basically put schools into 8 team districts/sectionals (based on location) and then they go from there. So this week will be 1st round and then next friday will be 2nd round and so on. So by week 9 they have the field shrunk down to 16 teams.
Everyone gets a chance to play and some of the match-ups are kind of crazy. A couple of sectionals have 0-7 vs 0-7 teams. But oh well someone will get their first win. A couple of them have 6-1 teams vs 5-2 teams. So I don't know how they split them, but pretty cool that everyone gets a shot.
Everyone gets a chance to play and some of the match-ups are kind of crazy. A couple of sectionals have 0-7 vs 0-7 teams. But oh well someone will get their first win. A couple of them have 6-1 teams vs 5-2 teams. So I don't know how they split them, but pretty cool that everyone gets a shot.
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