As a fan of Western Christian, I am very thankful for the running clock this year in girls basketball. Hopefully the game vs. Spirit Lake this Friday is a little better.
Running Clock
- Thread starter wolfpackattack
- Start date
I am not a fan of the running clock. I think it is more embarassing for a team to lose by 35 + and only score 10 points than it is to lose by 50+ points and score 20 points. I don't have any statistical data, but it appears that there are many more teams around the state that aren't even getting to 20 points than there were in the past. I think the continuous clock is hurting the team on the short end of the score more than it helps them as they have fewer opportunities to score in the second half.
It will also change career stats as coaches play reserves a greater percentage of time in the second half of these games to get them minutes. I'm not saying it's good or bad but I'm thinking there will be fewer 1,000 point career scorers in the future.
I go back and forth. There is some awful girls basketball around the state right now- and it doesn't appear to be changing in many programs- lack of talent, lack of off-season work, coaches who don't put in time.....the list of "why" goes on forever. I think the rule has merit in that I have a hard time believing kids are worried about getting to 20 points scored more than they are saying "just get me off this floor." It is hard to watch teams get pounded and just have to take it night in and night out.
I also see the side where people say it affects the good teams because they lose that time for developing bench players, etc. When that clock goes it is a quick half- and getting quality time for very many people is difficult. Now, some will ask how "quality" it is if you are playing a bad basketball team- I guess I don't know the answer to that question.
It is a tough call for me. I am coaching junior high this year- 6 minute quarters- and I only have 7 8th grade girls- but they are a very good 7- the scores in a few games are just out of hand- and we don't press, we try to slow it down, etc.
I think anyone who has coached and been on both ends understands it is a bad spot to be in....if you are way ahead you are trying to think of ways not to hang a 100 on someone- is that really basketball? And it would be easier if the clock ran.
Just no sure on this one.....
I also see the side where people say it affects the good teams because they lose that time for developing bench players, etc. When that clock goes it is a quick half- and getting quality time for very many people is difficult. Now, some will ask how "quality" it is if you are playing a bad basketball team- I guess I don't know the answer to that question.
It is a tough call for me. I am coaching junior high this year- 6 minute quarters- and I only have 7 8th grade girls- but they are a very good 7- the scores in a few games are just out of hand- and we don't press, we try to slow it down, etc.
I think anyone who has coached and been on both ends understands it is a bad spot to be in....if you are way ahead you are trying to think of ways not to hang a 100 on someone- is that really basketball? And it would be easier if the clock ran.
Just no sure on this one.....
I agree! The good teams want to use these games for those JV players to gain Varsity experience. This builds their programs as much as off season workouts and summer team camps. The running clock minimizes these kid's opportunity to get Varsity minutes. Just in the news today of a girls team in Indiana beating a team 107-2. (no mercy rule) Do you tell your kids to quit shooting? I would think you could work on some sort of offense where you don't take the first open shot.
At what point can the school simply play JV games and not put their kids in a position to lose by that many points? I've heard of high school football teams playing JV schedules only to build their programs. That may be a better option than the mercy rule. Not 100% sure that would work, but it is a thought.
At what point can the school simply play JV games and not put their kids in a position to lose by that many points? I've heard of high school football teams playing JV schedules only to build their programs. That may be a better option than the mercy rule. Not 100% sure that would work, but it is a thought.
I guess when I see 5A schools struggling to score 15, 16 points a game, that makes a tremendous mockery of the entire system. That is my two cents. I also feel for those coaches who are trying to get more kids in the game because it may not be a quality opponent, but it is time in front of a crowd, or in front of loved ones who want to see their student athlete perform. Maybe that is what JV games, drill team, and jazz band are for, but being in front of the crowd during a Varsity game is a big experience for most kids. I mention the scores in the teens as a focal point of another way to look at this rule change, I don't know if it helps or hurts, I just personally don't like the rule.
The rule seems un-American on many different levels.
First off, in general, most varsity girls work their butts off to have moments on the hardwood. For many roster players, 8th girl and up, minutes are precious. By running the clock, they have less time. Too much work goes into this to cut into that.
Secondly, this new rule skews the historical stats from this point forward.
As for the team getting beat like a drum. It serves as a pretty good life lesson. If you don't like the results then play harder, hustle better, be more physical, get in the gym, work on your skills, etc....... Life is much like basketball, you work hard, good things happen. Prepare yourself, good things happen.
In conclusion........welcome to life.
First off, in general, most varsity girls work their butts off to have moments on the hardwood. For many roster players, 8th girl and up, minutes are precious. By running the clock, they have less time. Too much work goes into this to cut into that.
Secondly, this new rule skews the historical stats from this point forward.
As for the team getting beat like a drum. It serves as a pretty good life lesson. If you don't like the results then play harder, hustle better, be more physical, get in the gym, work on your skills, etc....... Life is much like basketball, you work hard, good things happen. Prepare yourself, good things happen.
In conclusion........welcome to life.
I was beginning to think I may be one of the few that think quality of games I have seen this year was down overall, I know we had a thread going on last year about this, and I think so far no improvement this year. I do think there are some very good teams, but there seems to be more mediocre and poor teams out there. I have been to several games this year where there have not been any seniors on the tea. Decreased numbers playing, decreased skills showing. I am not sure what the answer is, but it may be just a combination of the comments being posted here.
I don't know Northernhawkeye about it being un-american- not sure how old you are- but at age 47 there are not many young kids that grew up in the America I did- or with the values....you can talk about put more time in, etc. but that is not what people are doing. Seeing the junior high teams I am seeing in our area- there are going to be some severe beat downs over the next 4 years in our area...and those kids will not get out and work harder- they will quit- because that is the America they live in.
I think at times I see this rule as the equivalent to a "tap out" in MMA- as much as you'd like to go on fighting- the outcome has been decided. Which happens more often- teams get down 30 plus and they rally and fight back or they quit? Do I wish they would learn the life lesson and keep fighting? Yes, I do.
I don't really care which way they go with it- we have it in football and it has worked ok. I don't think there are any programs that can say they were not prepared for the next season because their jv just didn't get enough time in blowout games due to continuous clock...I don't think you'd see it in girls basketball either. The records would be affected- on that I agree.
I think at times I see this rule as the equivalent to a "tap out" in MMA- as much as you'd like to go on fighting- the outcome has been decided. Which happens more often- teams get down 30 plus and they rally and fight back or they quit? Do I wish they would learn the life lesson and keep fighting? Yes, I do.
I don't really care which way they go with it- we have it in football and it has worked ok. I don't think there are any programs that can say they were not prepared for the next season because their jv just didn't get enough time in blowout games due to continuous clock...I don't think you'd see it in girls basketball either. The records would be affected- on that I agree.
I think it is the haves vs. the have nots. The schools that have programs that work with their kids (not just a selected class here and there) are the ones that always surface to the top. There are some schools that have a great group of kids that go through every now and then, but the programs that are always in the running are the ones that work with kids in every grade level. The level of play has decreased in a lot of programs signifantly over the years. We have a similar number of really good teams, but there aren't as many mediocre teams in lue of a lot of poor teams. Wubben talks about the future beat down that teams will get down the road- that will be true for a lot of teams. But the good programs will be able to withstand a "lean" class and take a couple of good players and still make a competitive team at the varsity level. The other schools will suffer some long nights.
Reality is that the JV and other non-starter players from those schools who are on the winning side of these lopsided games get better competition in their daily practices against their teammates and that equates to better player improvement more than game time in a game that is a 50 point or more differential. Coaches should and most do work their substitutes in with the running clock in mind.
Something I have noticed is the numbers of kids going out for basketball is going down and not just the small schools. Something else that has happened in the recent years is schools, parents, or whoever, are having more little kid tournaments for, as they say, making their program better. It is more about making money, but anyway, more kids are starting to play this tournament/league ball at an earlier age and I think there is a direct correlation between this and fewer numbers in high school ball. At this young age, the people that coach them play few kids and make half of them sit and watch because they are not as skilled at the prime age of 8. The kids that sit get tired of it and the kids that go and go and go..........and go playing ball during the week and on weekends from the time they are 7 years old until they are in high school, or way sooner, also get sick of it. They also take their kids all over the midwest to play and this is just crazy. Haven't the basketball people paid attention to the wrestling over the years? Go to a little kids wrestling tournament and see hundreds of little kids and then go to a high school meet. They are starting to have triangular and quad meets just to have enough matches to justify having the meet. I have also seen at little kid tournaments where parents get kicked out because of their pitiful behavior. Really? With all of this, the kids are not having fun and giving it up. Another thing, these parents have no perspective on things. They will pay so called experts big money for "expert" coaching with basketball, baseball/softball hitting, softball pitching, etc. but their kids don't perform in the classroom and just let that go. They need a tutor, so to speak, but we need to do it for sports? Make it fun, expose them to the game and give fundamental instruction, limit the organized exposure to the game so they see the sport as their choice to play. Keep them hungry. When that happens, they will improve their skill because they will have their heart in it. Parents should encourage, not demand that they play. I know this against the thought of many parents today, but it will take an incredible argument for me to change my mind.
Bulldog, I will tend to agree with you. A couple of weeks ago I heard some parents talking about putting a second grade level girls team together. Weekly skills level practices, maybe, but they were concerned about finding other second grade teams to play. I mentioned to one that at that age why not just have weekly fun practices to work on skills, but that didn't seem to interest them. I just cant fathom that, but over the past 20 years, teams that use to start in the 5th grade level went to 4th, now 3rd grade, and apparently some are looking at the second grade level. Having all girls, I did not watch much wrestling back then, and I guess I did not realize numbers are that low, but I think you have a point. I guess when my first grandaughter comes maybe we will have competetive kindergarden tournies to look towards.
Travel teams have gotten out of hand. The best alternative would be some sort of weekly, in-district skills clinic, with maybe 30 minute scrimmages at the end, again with just in-district kids. Don't tell me the kids wouldn't like it. The kids just want to play. I have coached my son's travel team since 3rd grade, because I sort of thought that was the way it had to be. He is now in 6th grade. I have always tried to play everyone, and when the numbers got big, we split off into two teams so everyone would play more. But looking back, I think those kids would have been just as happy doing skills and scrimmages, and maybe finding the occasional scrimmage with another school. I have more kids, so I guess we'll see if I change. I hope that I do.
At first I was ok with the running clock. Now I'm not all that crazy about it. Players on good teams are losing game time due to the running clock. Athletes pursuing milestones or personal goals are losing time to achieve them. Bench players are losing playing time too. Why should players on good teams lose playing time just because the other team is terrible. These players have worked hard to get where they are at.
Now for the reason there are such bad teams. Some teams just lack the basic fundamentals. I can't believe how some teams just lack fundamentals. It does start when these kids are in grade school. Youth basketball programs should not be based on playing games. They should be based on practicing and focusing on fundamentals. Ball handling, passing, pivoting, correct shooting form, playing good team defense, etc.
I don't think the running clock rule will go away though. Now that we have it, I think we are stuck with it.
Now for the reason there are such bad teams. Some teams just lack the basic fundamentals. I can't believe how some teams just lack fundamentals. It does start when these kids are in grade school. Youth basketball programs should not be based on playing games. They should be based on practicing and focusing on fundamentals. Ball handling, passing, pivoting, correct shooting form, playing good team defense, etc.
I don't think the running clock rule will go away though. Now that we have it, I think we are stuck with it.
