RPI in lower classes

franky1967

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I see in class 2a and 1a no 16seeds made the playoffs, however 2-20 seeds did make it. I'm sure the RPI is not working the way it is suppose to
 

franky1967

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the two teams that were 20th in RPI were district champs. Not sure how you can think that indicates a problem with RPI.[/QUOT

Just put them in district's just for scheduling and forget the district champ title. Then you get the best 16 teams in the playoffs
 
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franky1967

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That is all I have been hearing about the RPI on this board, is getting the top 16 teams in the state into the playoffs
 

franky1967

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Who is saying that? The IHSAA’s goal for RPI is to round out the field of 16 with the best non-district winners.
Now that is funny, I think I have heard everything to why the RPI is the best invention since "Sliced Bread"

They went to the RPI to get the best 16 teams in the playoffs, those are the comments I've seen from many people on this board.

Let's go back to 2017 and I will bet you will find articles and comments to point to just that. Next year when something else comes up where good teams get screwed it will be another scenerio with another definition of the RPI
 
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franky1967

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Franky, you are alone on a bandwagon here. What do you want to see that would be better than what we have?
The RPI ensures that non-district games matter, strength of schedule matters, and winning a district matters. Therefore, it is a very good system.
Class 4a go to 8 District's, District Champ and runner-up make the playoffs . Seed to Strictly RPI.

Or expand playoffs either to 24-32 teams, at least a 16th seed does not get left out?
 

franky1967

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Class 4a go to 8 District's, District Champ and runner-up make the playoffs . Seed to Strictly RPI.

Or expand playoffs either to 24-32 teams, at least a 16th seed does not get left out?
Im pretty sure the sub Division in college football has a 20team playoff format? At any rate, you are seeing the decline in High School Football and improving the playoffs may help reverse the trend
 

franky1967

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Yes, there’s certainly a decline in participation at the HS level but not sure changing the PO format would do much to stem the tide.
Well if you are on the Western Side of the State having to go through Dowling and Valley just to reach the finals does impact numbers.

I would be for maybe adding a 5a Class and adjusting all classes. I think this would give more schools opportunities and increase participation.

A good example is in Girls Volleyball I think CR Washington (1-33) plays CF who is (33-1) I don't think the match should even happen because CF is 99% chance of winning.

However from a coaching standpoint, CR Washington gets more practice and one more game and alot of motivation.

So if we do it in all sports we can add a another game in football. The people that don't want competition are the ones that want the same teams taking a shorter direct path with no resistance. Just a opinion
 
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Hawksince73

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Aug 21, 2002
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"The RPI ensures that non-district games matter, strength of schedule matters, and winning a district matters. Therefore, it is a very good system."


This is exactly why CRK wanted to schedule Valley the last two years.
 

franky1967

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"The RPI ensures that non-district games matter, strength of schedule matters, and winning a district matters. Therefore, it is a very good system."


This is exactly why CRK wanted to schedule Valley the last two years.
I was thinking about that with Iowa City West & IC High. Just think if you scheduled them because of Tradition and then they both have the year they had and you don't gain anything. It's always hard to tell when you schedule any team.

On top of having Valley on the schedule, they got to play Bettendorf. Kennedy got the best of both worlds this year
 

EvilMonkeyInTheCloset

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Now that is funny, I think I have heard everything to why the RPI is the best invention since "Sliced Bread"

They went to the RPI to get the best 16 teams in the playoffs, those are the comments I've seen from many people on this board.

Let's go back to 2017 and I will bet you will find articles and comments to point to just that. Next year when something else comes up where good teams get screwed it will be another scenerio with another definition of the RPI
Just stop while you're stuck in neutral.......thank you.
 
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ToddDoxzon7

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Aug 20, 2004
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From a coaches view, the RPI does NOT work. The state still schedules all the non-district games which has the biggest influence on the RPI. S-K in 1A goes 8-1 and does not get in?? I agree with the comment that going to 32 does help our game. More kids get in, more excitement in the programs, more kids decide to go out. I see how 32 does not work for 4A, but we have been told over and over all classes do not have to have the same system. Why would 8Man ever have an RPI with only 2 non-district games and teams like Fremont Mills who only played 7 games. Things HAVE to change. IAHSAA member schools have spoken with over 75% of schools from 3A to 8 man in favor of expanding. No reason the state should not listen to that. Nevada deserved to be in. On a personal level, I never understood why settling it in each district was a problem? Top 2 get in. Or with 32 top 4 get in. Match districts up for the post season. Lots of better options than an RPI. Ask the NCAA why they got rid of theirs!
 

CF_93

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I’m definitely not in favor of lowering the bar to get in. Leave it at 16 in 4A. It should be a reward for a successful season. The issue with participation is not that teams/players know they have no chance at the playoffs, but rather a safety issue, with players and parents now worried about all of the concussions. Until the concussions start trending back downward, participation is likely to gradually drop.

The last thing we need are teams playing a needless 10th game, further risking injury, and in some cases (as with Waterloo East in 2016), with such small rosters to begin with, so completely depleted with injuries that they can no longer field a team by week 9.

Bottom line is the game needs to be made safer. If that means experimenting with radical new helmet designs, so be it.
 

franky1967

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From a coaches view, the RPI does NOT work. The state still schedules all the non-district games which has the biggest influence on the RPI. S-K in 1A goes 8-1 and does not get in?? I agree with the comment that going to 32 does help our game. More kids get in, more excitement in the programs, more kids decide to go out. I see how 32 does not work for 4A, but we have been told over and over all classes do not have to have the same system. Why would 8Man ever have an RPI with only 2 non-district games and teams like Fremont Mills who only played 7 games. Things HAVE to change. IAHSAA member schools have spoken with over 75% of schools from 3A to 8 man in favor of expanding. No reason the state should not listen to that. Nevada deserved to be in. On a personal level, I never understood why settling it in each district was a problem? Top 2 get in. Or with 32 top 4 get in. Match districts up for the post season. Lots of better options than an RPI. Ask the NCAA why they got rid of theirs!
Actually 32 did work in 4a, and the problem with that on the 4a board with many posters was having a 9-0 team facing a 4-5 team and the thought a key member could get injured.

I think you have thought this through, I was not aware the NCAA used and got rid of it. You think of they us d the RPI system then you would not need a playoff committee to determine the playoff field.

The team that I look out for did not have the problem making the playoffs, I was just expressing my view with teams with a better RPI and record not making the playoffs.

At least you and others on here posted valid comments for and against the system.
 

franky1967

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I’m definitely not in favor of lowering the bar to get in. Leave it at 16 in 4A. It should be a reward for a successful season. The issue with participation is not that teams/players know they have no chance at the playoffs, but rather a safety issue, with players and parents now worried about all of the concussions. Until the concussions start trending back downward, participation is likely to gradually drop.

The last thing we need are teams playing a needless 10th game, further risking injury, and in some cases (as with Waterloo East in 2016), with such small rosters to begin with, so completely depleted with injuries that they can no longer field a team by week 9.

Bottom line is the game needs to be made safer. If that means experimenting with radical new helmet designs, so be it.
Here is my view as I respect yours. You have seen over the years where you did not have a week between games, you played with and without key players and the Semifinals were never played in the Dome. That was the worse the Iowa Athletic Association made it for teams.

I bet I probably can find teams even at the 4a level whose programs started to turn around because they were able to use the expanded playoffs as a building block.

By not expanding the playoffs and you can look for yourself, usually the same 16 teams in the playoffs and most likely will always be that way.

Adding one game is not a back breaker they played 14 games before, what is different now from when they played that many games back then?

East High honestly was doing good during that time. They had two Coaches back to back that had that program on the right track. However both coaches had legal issues and had to leave. Then they went through many of coaches after that
 

ToddDoxzon7

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I think going to 32 will mean going to an 8 game regular season. Same amount of games. I would advocate that the teams not in play a week 9 against a team of similar district ranking in a cross over district. Respectfully disagree that it is all about concussions. Do you think the parents at Valley care less than the parents at DM East. Look at all programs, arts, speech, band etc. If the school has a solid program and success, kids participate. Nevada is trying to build and you can't tell me a playoff berth this year would not add excitement at all levels, including youth flag or whatever their feeder system is.
 
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franky1967

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I agree, if you are in the states elite teams no matter what class say like Dowling,you like the way things are and you don't want any disruption. Now the way things are and people wanting a Dowling/ Valley matchup in the finals, they may get it, next year and the year after that and even after that. Because there are few teams on that side of the state that will ever challenge them.

So if you can't get the numbers out for football most those teams probably could care less and will use most of those schools as a coaching stop.

The only advantage of even having say East vs West matchups in the regular season and now in the playoffs. Is perhaps some of the Eastern teams are figuring out how to stay and play with Valley,. Dowling.and.Centential.
 

CF_93

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I think going to 32 will mean going to an 8 game regular season. Same amount of games. I would advocate that the teams not in play a week 9 against a team of similar district ranking in a cross over district. Respectfully disagree that it is all about concussions. Do you think the parents at Valley care less than the parents at DM East. Look at all programs, arts, speech, band etc. If the school has a solid program and success, kids participate. Nevada is trying to build and you can't tell me a playoff berth this year would not add excitement at all levels, including youth flag or whatever their feeder system is.

The thing about it is that it’s not just an Iowa thing, but nationwide as well. Sure, the larger, more affluent schools won’t have issues with participation. But smaller/poorer ones will. Some of it is also very much demographic and economic as well.
 

franky1967

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Well here is a thought and wondered why they have never thought about it. Why don't they take the next 8 teams that didn't make it and have a consolation bracket.

If they decide they want to extend their season then fine, if not go to the next team in the RPI until.you get 8 teams.

Here is why it won't happen though, because the top teams in the state don't want the teams that cannot compete the ability to get better and compete.

Give each team that doesn't make the playoffs have a non meaning game just to make.it worth going.out for football
 

franky1967

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The thing about it is that it’s not just an Iowa thing, but nationwide as well. Sure, the larger, more affluent schools won’t have issues with participation. But smaller/poorer ones will. Some of it is also very much demographic and economic as well.
I dont disagree with that,.soon we will all be playing 8 man football if they don't figure out how to increase participation
 

cidhawkeye

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A couple of the challenges that they had for 32 teams were 1,2,3 win teams making the field and the playoff schedule with too many games in to short of time frame.
 
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franky1967

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A couple of the challenges that they had for 32 teams were 1,2,3 win teams making the field and the playoff schedule with too many games in to short of time frame.
The 1,2 or 3 win teams got in cause of the East West split at the time. Often those teams would be replacing a team with a winning record just to maintain the 16/16 split
 

SpinningBird

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The 1,2 or 3 win teams got in cause of the East West split at the time. Often those teams would be replacing a team with a winning record just to maintain the 16/16 split
That's not true at all. During the time when 32 of the 48 teams made the playoffs in 4A, there was NEVER a team with a winning record left out.
 
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KidSilverhair

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A couple of the challenges that they had for 32 teams were 1,2,3 win teams making the field and the playoff schedule with too many games in to short of time frame.
- The five-round playoff system was a bear for no recovery time between games (Friday Week 9, Wednesday first round, Monday second round, Friday quarterfinals). As mentioned above, if the playoff field is ever expanded back to five rounds, it would probably require cutting the season to 8 games.

- Going by RPI for this year, if you went to 32 teams you'd have four 4-win teams, seven 3-win teams, and one 2-win team; almost half the field would have losing records. You'd end up with seedings like City High vs Valley, CB Jefferson vs Cedar Falls, and DM Lincoln vs Southeast Polk.

- In a bigger class like 3A, 32 makes more sense; there'd be just three teams with losing records in that field (Decorah, Winterset, and CPU).

- A 24-team field in 4A, which could make sense except for the IHSAA's insistence that nobody gets a first-round bye, would have Pleasant Valley as the 24 seed and zero 3-win teams. With the top 8 getting a bye, you're looking at first-round games like Pleasant Valley vs Ankeny, Marshalltown vs Waukee, and Hempstead vs Fort Dodge ... those appear quite a bit more reasonable than that 32-team field.
 

franky1967

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- The five-round playoff system was a bear for no recovery time between games (Friday Week 9, Wednesday first round, Monday second round, Friday quarterfinals). As mentioned above, if the playoff field is ever expanded back to five rounds, it would probably require cutting the season to 8 games.

- Going by RPI for this year, if you went to 32 teams you'd have four 4-win teams, seven 3-win teams, and one 2-win team; almost half the field would have losing records. You'd end up with seedings like City High vs Valley, CB Jefferson vs Cedar Falls, and DM Lincoln vs Southeast Polk.

- In a bigger class like 3A, 32 makes more sense; there'd be just three teams with losing records in that field (Decorah, Winterset, and CPU).

- A 24-team field in 4A, which could make sense except for the IHSAA's insistence that nobody gets a first-round bye, would have Pleasant Valley as the 24 seed and zero 3-win teams. With the top 8 getting a bye, you're looking at first-round games like Pleasant Valley vs Ankeny, Marshalltown vs Waukee, and Hempstead vs Fort Dodge ... those appear quite a bit more reasonable than that 32-team field.
I see your point, I have never read any of the lower class threads until last night. I read more in Class A and seemed like most would like the playoffs expanded. I'm not dure about 1a, 2s or 3a
 

Reasoned

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Even with “only” the top 16 teams making the PO’s, I will predict that half of those games are decided by more than 20 points, imagine adding in the next 8 or 16...I’d rather not.
 

CF_93

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Even with “only” the top 16 teams making the PO’s, I will predict that half of those games are decided by more than 20 points, imagine adding in the next 8 or 16...I’d rather not.
Especially out of only 42 teams in the class. Now I would be shocked if the state doesn’t push 4A back to 48 teams again starting next year. I think for all the reasons they tried to justify dropping to 42 teams, that experiment has blown up spectacularly in the IAHSAA’s faces.
 

franky1967

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That's not true at all. During the time when 32 of the 48 teams made the playoffs in 4A, there was NEVER a team with a winning record left out.
Actually go back through the records as I recall wether it was 8/8 split or 16/16 split a 1-8 team From the West took out a team with a better record on the East. Tomaintain the split
 

franky1967

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Especially out of only 42 teams in the class. Now I would be shocked if the state doesn’t push 4A back to 48 teams again starting next year. I think for all the reasons they tried to justify dropping to 42 teams, that experiment has blown up spectacularly in the IAHSAA’s faces.
But where did it blow up at, the lower.classes? Did it blow up because a 8-1 team was left out of the playoffs?
 

CF_93

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But where did it blow up at, the lower.classes? Did it blow up because a 8-1 team was left out of the playoffs?
Not sure about the smaller classes, but I was more referring to the state creating less parity in 4A by dropping it to 42 schools, when their intention was to create more of it if anything.

But yeah, with 61 teams now in class A, that’s only going to make it harder for them to make it too.
 
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dtk913

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Franky, you are alone on a bandwagon here. What do you want to see that would be better than what we have?
The RPI ensures that non-district games matter, strength of schedule matters, and winning a district matters. Therefore, it is a very good system.
RPI might be a good system for 4A and 8 Man where the large majority of your ND games are against teams in the same class, but it isn't good for anyone else. In classes where ND games could be against teams that are up or down a class or two there is no way to have a level playing field. When one 2A team plays three or four 3A teams for ND and another plays four A or 1A teams how can you compare the schedules?
 

areukiddingme

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The solution for playoffs cant be a 1 fit for all classes. Class A is a much different animal than 4a. The boys in Boone need to be more creative when deciding things. Why is 1 district in class A have 5 teams and another has 7? the 5 team champ is a whopping 5-4 on the seasn and only had to play 4 district games? 10 districts in A means only 6 at large berths. Take top 2 teams in lower classes and use RPI for the last 4 or 8 or whatever teams you need to even it out, but at least make districts more equal.
 

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