Regina vs. St. Edmond
- Thread starter Pinehawk
- Start date
I'd like to see SE win but I think Regina is a little too balanced for them. If SE defense is up to the task and forces a couple turnovers then they might have a chance of pulling the upset. The key to the game will be if SE can establish any running game. If they don't and are forced to start throwing and playing catchup it could be a two to three score win for Regina. I think SE is a slightly better version of North Fayette.
Regina is a bad matchup for anyone but really plays to the weaknesses of SE. SE has a great run defense but a mediocre pass defense. They seem to come up with big plays in the secondary with timely INTs but a good QB should be able to move on them. Van Meter's QB was pretty effective throwing against SE until the 4th when he fell apart and SE forced a couple TOs.
SE can throw the ball as displayed by their 4/4 pasing against Van Meter but I'm not sure they could do it routinely if they were forced to open up their offense a little more. SE's QB completes about 40% of his passes on the season but has a great TD/INT ratio. SE's game plan will be the same as it always is. Try to establish the run game and attempt a few timely passes for big plays.
28-14 Regina
This post was edited on 11/18 10:54 AM by CP84
Regina is a bad matchup for anyone but really plays to the weaknesses of SE. SE has a great run defense but a mediocre pass defense. They seem to come up with big plays in the secondary with timely INTs but a good QB should be able to move on them. Van Meter's QB was pretty effective throwing against SE until the 4th when he fell apart and SE forced a couple TOs.
SE can throw the ball as displayed by their 4/4 pasing against Van Meter but I'm not sure they could do it routinely if they were forced to open up their offense a little more. SE's QB completes about 40% of his passes on the season but has a great TD/INT ratio. SE's game plan will be the same as it always is. Try to establish the run game and attempt a few timely passes for big plays.
28-14 Regina
This post was edited on 11/18 10:54 AM by CP84
A quick look at the stats indicates that St. Ed's throws the ball very little. Even less than North Fayette Valley did.
Does St. Edmond's have the running game that NFV did? How have they had this much success only throwing the ball on average 4 times a game?
Or, is it mostly all about their defense shutting down other teams for the most part?
Does St. Edmond's have the running game that NFV did? How have they had this much success only throwing the ball on average 4 times a game?
Or, is it mostly all about their defense shutting down other teams for the most part?
I think it's a little better running game than NF. Per BC Moore, NF has a slightly better offense but they also played some weak defenses throughout the season. Even South Winneshiek has only the 30th ranked defense and that was the other best team from their district. SE ran against some good defenses: Manson * 2 (13), Van Meter (4), South O'Brien (12). They ran for 488 yards against South O'Brien and SO beat Sioux Center (2A semi-finalist) earlier in the year.
Even though SE appears really one dimensional, their running game is very diverse. They run a lot of misdirection plays and have two different style running backs. Harvey is a big bruising running back. I'd compare him to Weisman for Iowa. Then they have a more or a speed guy that can hit the outside corners in O'Toole. O'Toole is only a sophomore and played JV the first game or two before they realized how good he was and brought him up. He had 178 yards against VM and 220 against SO in his last two games. Harvey has also gone over 100 in each of the last two.
This post was edited on 11/18 11:12 AM by CP84
The key will be St. Eds defense, they have to force them to punt consistently, forcing a couple turnovers isn't enough to beat Regina and they have proven it this year and last year at the dome. Yes turnovers will help but they will also have to keep them out of the end zone when they don't get turnovers. I think St. Eds will have to start out very strong and hold on for dear life if they want to win it, their pass defense will for sure have to step up..not even the athleticism of St. Albert could slow down the regal passing game last year, it isn't an easy task. I will take Regina but likely not a blowout by any means.
Hmm, I don't trust Pinehawk asking all these questions.
But I will say that for whatever reason people are underestimating SE's pass defense. Of course only a handful of teams passed a lot in their district but they were the top pass defense, statistically, of the 8 quarterfinalists heading into that round, by far. Van Meter really had a few good passes in the 1st and the big 3rd qtr aided by a ridiculously good play from Brittain, a questionable PI call and a 4th down conversion.
I watched the 1st qtr of the Regina-NFV game. Regina mostly tried to spread NFV out and ran Brinkman slightly more than they did Dixon I believe. Like any good team they involve their playmakers anyway they can. Both Brinkman and Dixon were lined up outside as WRs on different plays and Cook would look to them, either deep or on screens. Just in the 1st qtr, I didn't see them throw a lot of short routes unless you count the screens they set up. Cook is a tall QB and his release has much more touch on it than Brittain. His ball was very tight-roped, which made it easy to bat down at the LOS, at least on their short routes.
It doesn't take long for Regina's WRs to cover 40 yds and they like to take their shots and let their playmakers try to outjump the defenders. Thing is...SE is very familiar with that. Stopping it is basically on the individual(s) in coverage.
The difference with Regina's pass game compared to other teams is that the timing (and thus execution) is so much better, especially on the deep balls. Now the downside is because Cook likes to take shots, he'll occasionally overthrow or throw a pick (granted he only threw his 3rd on the year against NFV, but you can leave yourself susceptible to that on jump balls that are not timed well.)
I saw Regina go to the I-form when they got near the redzone but I believe they backed out into their 4 WR look and that may have also been the play where Cook kept it up the middle for their 1st score.
Cook ran with the ball a lot in the 1st qtr, which kind of surprised me. Most of his success was up the middle, too, except on a scramble to his right where he ran uncovered for a 1st down. He's got some straight-line speed for a 6'5" kid, but I'll have to watch how "Johnny Manziel-like" he is when/if the pocket collapses and he has to improvise. Brittain was a mobile QB who could scramble and change direction. I guess a key will be what SE can do once/if they get pressure on Cook in the backfield. If Cook is a scrambler too, that obviously makes them that much tougher to defend.
Also, typical of that offense and something SE has at least seen before, they run the read option. The RB usually lines up just off right or left of Cook. But like I said, Cook also kept it a number of times.
Basically the keys for SE will be to force a lot of 3rd and longs any way possible and get them off the field, and then ball control on offense.
Of course I've only watched the 1st qtr of their game.....
P.S. At least on offense, I noticed that Dixon was the only player who had his name on the back of his jersey (white away). Regina fans, is there a story to this?
But I will say that for whatever reason people are underestimating SE's pass defense. Of course only a handful of teams passed a lot in their district but they were the top pass defense, statistically, of the 8 quarterfinalists heading into that round, by far. Van Meter really had a few good passes in the 1st and the big 3rd qtr aided by a ridiculously good play from Brittain, a questionable PI call and a 4th down conversion.
I watched the 1st qtr of the Regina-NFV game. Regina mostly tried to spread NFV out and ran Brinkman slightly more than they did Dixon I believe. Like any good team they involve their playmakers anyway they can. Both Brinkman and Dixon were lined up outside as WRs on different plays and Cook would look to them, either deep or on screens. Just in the 1st qtr, I didn't see them throw a lot of short routes unless you count the screens they set up. Cook is a tall QB and his release has much more touch on it than Brittain. His ball was very tight-roped, which made it easy to bat down at the LOS, at least on their short routes.
It doesn't take long for Regina's WRs to cover 40 yds and they like to take their shots and let their playmakers try to outjump the defenders. Thing is...SE is very familiar with that. Stopping it is basically on the individual(s) in coverage.
The difference with Regina's pass game compared to other teams is that the timing (and thus execution) is so much better, especially on the deep balls. Now the downside is because Cook likes to take shots, he'll occasionally overthrow or throw a pick (granted he only threw his 3rd on the year against NFV, but you can leave yourself susceptible to that on jump balls that are not timed well.)
I saw Regina go to the I-form when they got near the redzone but I believe they backed out into their 4 WR look and that may have also been the play where Cook kept it up the middle for their 1st score.
Cook ran with the ball a lot in the 1st qtr, which kind of surprised me. Most of his success was up the middle, too, except on a scramble to his right where he ran uncovered for a 1st down. He's got some straight-line speed for a 6'5" kid, but I'll have to watch how "Johnny Manziel-like" he is when/if the pocket collapses and he has to improvise. Brittain was a mobile QB who could scramble and change direction. I guess a key will be what SE can do once/if they get pressure on Cook in the backfield. If Cook is a scrambler too, that obviously makes them that much tougher to defend.
Also, typical of that offense and something SE has at least seen before, they run the read option. The RB usually lines up just off right or left of Cook. But like I said, Cook also kept it a number of times.
Basically the keys for SE will be to force a lot of 3rd and longs any way possible and get them off the field, and then ball control on offense.
Of course I've only watched the 1st qtr of their game.....
P.S. At least on offense, I noticed that Dixon was the only player who had his name on the back of his jersey (white away). Regina fans, is there a story to this?
The positive for SE is having a top 3 team in the class forcing interceptions.That said they haven't faced a quarterback quite as good as Regina has. SE should be able to handle the running game but if Regina shows ability to throw the ball effectively they might create additional holes. It goes without saying they need to force three and outs. For SE to win they need to hold Regina under 30 because they can't compete in a shoot out. If SE can establish a running game, force a couple big turnovers and control the clock they might have a shot. I'm sticking with 28 -14 Regina
This post was edited on 11/18 10:12 PM by CP84
This post was edited on 11/18 10:12 PM by CP84
Btw, am I understanding this right...if Regina wins it's 56 without a loss or tie. Waterloo East had 55 straight without a loss or tie and the first game before that was a tie, so it's only 56 just without a loss.
Correct?
Because I hear some people say they could get the record and some say they could tie it.
For me personally, I'd say 55 in a row is good enough for a nice stopping point.
Correct?
Because I hear some people say they could get the record and some say they could tie it.
For me personally, I'd say 55 in a row is good enough for a nice stopping point.
The story on the jerseys as it was told to me is that only the seniors on the team get their names on their jerseys. Which I think is something relatively new.
It was my understanding that this game is for the record, but I'm not sure.
And, I'm asking questions in an attempt to keep the focus on what should be a great game, instead of the usual distractions.
It was my understanding that this game is for the record, but I'm not sure.
And, I'm asking questions in an attempt to keep the focus on what should be a great game, instead of the usual distractions.
Dixon and Halsch were freshman the last year names were on the backs of jerseys. Players had option of purchasing their jerseys. Halsch has since gone to a different number, with a new jersey. After this year you won't see names on jerseys.
Waterloo East had record for most wins at 55 and record for consecutive games without a loss, which is 56 due to a tie game. If Regina should win on Friday the have record for most consecutive wins at 56.
This post was edited on 11/18 5:56 PM by printit
Waterloo East had record for most wins at 55 and record for consecutive games without a loss, which is 56 due to a tie game. If Regina should win on Friday the have record for most consecutive wins at 56.
This post was edited on 11/18 5:56 PM by printit
Yes, the reason only a couple players have their names on the back is because this senior class was the last year to buy their uniforms so they got names on the back, most of those seniors either outgrew the jerseys or had to get new numbers for position reasons that is why only a couple still have names on the back. People are really talking up this St. Eds secondary, I am really looking forward to seeing if they live up to the hype, as for the Van Meter QB, I don't think he is even comparable in talent level with Cook, I also think Cook is much faster then him, maybe I was watching the wrong game. It is true that Cook isn't too quick because of his size, but his speed is exceptional especially once he gets moving.
I don't think anyone talked up their secondary. That's probably the weakest part of the defense but they do have a knack for creating interceptions. They looked pretty mediocre defending the pass in the first and third quarters against van Meter but the second and fourth were a different story. I'd compare their defense to Iowa being a bend but don't break. They are willing to give some cushion and allow some underneath passes while trying to prevent deep plays. Their front seven is stout against the run but I don't think they generate a ton of pressure on opposing quarterbacks. They did look pretty active getting their hands up and tipping passes at the line of scrimmage.
This post was edited on 11/18 9:55 PM by CP84
This post was edited on 11/18 9:55 PM by CP84
People? I said they were being underrated. (because they are based on what I'm reading)
Or are you hearing this from actually talking to others?
I didn't say Brittain was comparable to Cook. I actually explained their differences. And yes while Cook looks like he has straight line speed, how mobile is he under pressure? I haven't heard anyone compare him to Drew Tate. He's a different type of running QB than a Brittain or a Garthoff. And Cook is also much taller than both.
I am a SE fan but I really think this will be over quickly. Regina is big, faster and stronger, deeper and more talented. SE will play its heart out but will not have enough. Regina has a college coaching staff, diverse offenbse in a dome and outstanding coaching. Plus Regina will wear us out. I truly hope there are no serious injuries for SE because we are not very deep at all. Regina 35- SE7
DT - I have a couple takes on the d-backs for SE. I was impressed with the play of their safeties. With exception of the first TD they gave up they seemed to be all over the WR. I counted at least three times where they hit the receiver right after a catch and either forced an incompletion or a fumble. As you mentioned they had a well timed hit that the refs called a PI on that setup VM's second TD too.Originally posted by DarkThunder#61:
Hmm, I don't trust Pinehawk asking all these questions.
But I will say that for whatever reason people are underestimating SE's pass defense. Of course only a handful of teams passed a lot in their district but they were the top pass defense, statistically, of the 8 quarterfinalists heading into that round, by far. Van Meter really had a few good passes in the 1st and the big 3rd qtr aided by a ridiculously good play from Brittain, a questionable PI call and a 4th down conversion.
I watched the 1st qtr of the Regina-NFV game. Regina mostly tried to spread NFV out and ran Brinkman slightly more than they did Dixon I believe. Like any good team they involve their playmakers anyway they can. Both Brinkman and Dixon were lined up outside as WRs on different plays and Cook would look to them, either deep or on screens. Just in the 1st qtr, I didn't see them throw a lot of short routes unless you count the screens they set up. Cook is a tall QB and his release has much more touch on it than Brittain. His ball was very tight-roped, which made it easy to bat down at the LOS, at least on their short routes.
It doesn't take long for Regina's WRs to cover 40 yds and they like to take their shots and let their playmakers try to outjump the defenders. Thing is...SE is very familiar with that. Stopping it is basically on the individual(s) in coverage.
The difference with Regina's pass game compared to other teams is that the timing (and thus execution) is so much better, especially on the deep balls. Now the downside is because Cook likes to take shots, he'll occasionally overthrow or throw a pick (granted he only threw his 3rd on the year against NFV, but you can leave yourself susceptible to that on jump balls that are not timed well.)
I saw Regina go to the I-form when they got near the redzone but I believe they backed out into their 4 WR look and that may have also been the play where Cook kept it up the middle for their 1st score.
Cook ran with the ball a lot in the 1st qtr, which kind of surprised me. Most of his success was up the middle, too, except on a scramble to his right where he ran uncovered for a 1st down. He's got some straight-line speed for a 6'5" kid, but I'll have to watch how "Johnny Manziel-like" he is when/if the pocket collapses and he has to improvise. Brittain was a mobile QB who could scramble and change direction. I guess a key will be what SE can do once/if they get pressure on Cook in the backfield. If Cook is a scrambler too, that obviously makes them that much tougher to defend.
Also, typical of that offense and something SE has at least seen before, they run the read option. The RB usually lines up just off right or left of Cook. But like I said, Cook also kept it a number of times.
Basically the keys for SE will be to force a lot of 3rd and longs any way possible and get them off the field, and then ball control on offense.
Of course I've only watched the 1st qtr of their game.....
P.S. At least on offense, I noticed that Dixon was the only player who had his name on the back of his jersey (white away). Regina fans, is there a story to this?
However, I was very disappointed with the play of Gailey at CB. It sounded from the Manson and SO games that he made some key plays but in the VM game he made nothing but mistakes.
1) One play SE should have had a sack wrapped up and Brittain threw a prayer off his back foot and the receiver came up with the ball in front of Gailey.
2) Early in the game VM barely overthrew a bomb in the endzone where Gailey was beaten badly. That should have been a TD, although they ended up scoring on that drive anyway.
3) 4th Qtr final drive they completed a pass and Gailey had the WR wrapped up and he broke the tackle and ran another 5-10 yards.
4) Early in the game they picked on his side for a couple 10 yard completions. (I don't completely blame him for this since SE plays a pretty loose defense on the corners). I just don't understand giving up that 10 yard pass consistently and not come up a little sooner.
For SE to have a chance against Regina they need to continue good safety play but the corners need to step it up a notch or else Hawk44 will have a more accurate prediction.
I'll predict it goes similar to the NFV game, albeit with a little less passing on Regina's part. SE will come out firing on offense, especially if their big back is as good as people say he is. NFV showed in the first half that misdirection, particularly using the fullback, is very effective at splitting Regina's defense. The key is going to be ball control. If SE can pound the football inside, dominate time of possession, and keep Regina's offense off the field they have a real good chance. That being said, Regina's offense is very diverse and makes very few mistakes. Their defensive line is very stout and creates match-up problems. Cook is one of the best-coached athletes in class 1A. Dixon and Brinkman run very hard behind their huge offensive line.
I think Regina wins, but SE plays a good game. 21-13 Regina.
I think Regina wins, but SE plays a good game. 21-13 Regina.
Another factor that could cause SE problems is size. DT: how does Regina compare in terms of size to Manson? Manson was the one team this season that seemed to be able to slow SE's offense and it was largely due to Manson being a much bigger team. If Regina is huge as you say they are that might cause some real problems for SE. They seem to have trouble with two things, good passing and big O-lines/D-lines. Fortunately for SE, Manson is a running team so SE shut their offense down relatively easily and only allowed 6 points in 2 games. I think Regina at least scores 21 points with their balanced offense so SE is going to have to perform better on offense than they did against Manson in game 2. For SE to win this game I think they need to score 4 times or more and that's a tall task against a defense that's as good as SE's.
I hope it is a close game but can't see that with SE being so one dimensional. 35-7 with SE's getting a late TD against Regina's backups to make it 35-14. Can't see it being any closer than 3 tds as the final score.
Looking at the rosters from both teams, don't be surprised to see these two teams in the championship again next year. Both have a lot of kids coming back.
Looking at the rosters from both teams, don't be surprised to see these two teams in the championship again next year. Both have a lot of kids coming back.
I think I read somewhere that their line averages 250...but like 3 are around 270 and the other 2 are around 220, if what Quikstats has is correct.
I said Manson would be the biggest team SE would face this year until Regina in the championship game if they got there, and here we are.
As for SE having trouble with good passing, I've seen you state your case above about this team, but I think that criticism in general was developed more on previous experiences.
Of course when you're comparing Regina, that's like saying NFL teams are gonna struggle with the Denver Broncos because they have good passing........................
I know SE plays most of their starters both ways. It doesn't look like Regina has many 2 way starters. Conditioning will be a big factor, especially against a big team like Regina. SE will have to create a lot of 3 and outs or turnovers so they do not wear down.
Either way I hope it is a great game.
Either way I hope it is a great game.
Any idea why Burbank only plays on the defensive side of the ball at nose guard? SE's o-line has a couple guys that are about 175-190 pounds on the line and Burbank is 235. Is it a conditioning issue or are the smaller guys just better blockers? Maybe they need more athletic linemen to be able to pull better. Remsberg is listed at 240 and he plays both sides of the ball.Originally posted by DarkThunder#61:
I think I read somewhere that their line averages 250...but like 3 are around 270 and the other 2 are around 220, if what Quikstats has is correct.
I said Manson would be the biggest team SE would face this year until Regina in the championship game if they got there, and here we are.
As for SE having trouble with good passing, I've seen you state your case above about this team, but I think that criticism in general was developed more on previous experiences.
Of course when you're comparing Regina, that's like saying NFL teams are gonna struggle with the Denver Broncos because they have good passing........................
As far as the passing I think te criticism sounds worse than I meant. SE has the #1 rated scoring defense so they can't have too many weaknesses. For the most part their run defense has been strong all year. From limited observation I'd say their biggest weakness is defending the short pass but that doesn't mean I think it's a real liability. I certainly think they can defend the pass better than most teams Regina has played to this point and they have some decent athletes back there especially with Peed, Bocken and O'Toole.
This post was edited on 11/20 3:16 PM by CP84
If SE doesn't get dejected and give up, the final won't be too bad low 40s to 13. Regina will want to give all players a chance to make the field and keep the fire going for next year.
This scenario will play out for the next 3-4 years or unless Marv moves on. Marv is one of the greatest motivators of teens I have ever witnessed.
This scenario will play out for the next 3-4 years or unless Marv moves on. Marv is one of the greatest motivators of teens I have ever witnessed.
Not saying this can't happen since Regina did shut out a decent Solon team but do you really feel SE is worse than Wilton West Branch, Maquoketa Valley and NF? I think Regina wins by 2-3 scores but unless SE is completely unable to move the ball on offense I see no way how even a good offense like Regina scores 49 points against a defense that hasn't given up >20 points against several top 15 opponents (Van Meter 14, South O'Brien 3, Manson 6 total in 2 games, Ridegview 6). That means that Regina would outscore the sum of those ranked teams from 5 total games. Also keep in mind that SE is a running team and even if they get down by a couple scores won't abandon the run and they also play a bend don't break defense trying to take away the big plays. So unless they just go three and out every time or fumble the ball several times it's going to be hard to have enough opportunities to score 49 points.
I'm sticking by my prediction of 28-14. I wouldn't be overly surprised by a 20 to 30 point margin of victory but I'd be shocked if Regina wins by over 40 points based on style of play and SE's defense alone. That would be more than half of the total points SE has given up in the whole season, 12 games. That would be an impressive feat if Regina manages it.
This post was edited on 11/21 1:19 PM by CP84
Way off base question, but I thought there are probably plenty of Regina fans reading this thread to shed some light. Last week in the Semi-final game I could hear there crowd chanting "R V T! R V T" Just curious what this means? Maybe I heard them wrong, but I thought this is what they were chanting.
I was there and it wasn't R V T...but, I'm not sure what chant that could've been.
Was it during the kickoff only? They do a special cheer for kickoffs.
Other than that, the only cheer that stands out were some loud 'de-fense' chants in the second half.
I just don't see how SE can keep up. I don't think it will a 6 TD spread, but I don't think the game will ever be in doubt. Regina just looks too solid and well coached. I'll take Regina 35-14.
