Preliminary Classifications Out

[KidSilverhair]

The state has posted the preliminary classifications for 2016-17 football on the IHSAA website. Here's the gist:

- Western Dubuque and Newton move up to 4A

- Boyden-Hull/Rock Valley, Chariton, Crestwood and Saydel drop from 3A to 2A, while Center Point-Urbana, Iowa Falls-Alden, North Polk, South Tama, Spirit Lake and West Burlington move from 2A to 3A

- Louisa-Muscatine, Okiboji, Tipton, and West Central Valley drop from 2A to 1A, while Dike-New Hartford, Eddyville-Blakesburg-Fremont, Pocahontas Area, South Central Calhoun, Underwood, and West Marshall move from 1A to 2A

- Alburnett, Hartley-Melvin-Sanborn, Hudson, Ridge View, Saint Ansgar, Southwest Valley, Fort Dodge Saint Edmonds, West Fork, and West Monona drop from 1A to A, while Alta/Aurelia, BCLUW, Belmond-Klemme, Denver, Logan-Magnolia, Maquoketa Valley, Mount Ayr, Pleasantville, Tri Center, and Van Buren move from A to 1A

The cutoffs are:

610 largest 3A school (Norwalk); 318 smallest 3A school (Iowa Falls-Alden)​

315 largest 2A school (MOC Floyd Valley); 203 smallest 2A school (four come in at 203)​

202 largest 1A school (Tipton); 157 smallest 1A school (Clayton Ridge - they have Guthrie Center at 126 but I think that's a typo and should probably be 162)​

157 largest A school (Pekin)​

 

[Dutchwrestling]

The state has posted the preliminary classifications for 2016-17 football on the IHSAA website. Here's the gist:

- Western Dubuque and Newton move up to 4A

- Boyden-Hull/Rock Valley, Chariton, Crestwood and Saydel drop from 3A to 2A, while Center Point-Urbana, Iowa Falls-Alden, North Polk, South Tama, Spirit Lake and West Burlington move from 2A to 3A

- Louisa-Muscatine, Okiboji, Tipton, and West Central Valley drop from 2A to 1A, while Dike-New Hartford, Eddyville-Blakesburg-Fremont, Pocahontas Area, South Central Calhoun, Underwood, and West Marshall move from 1A to 2A

- Alburnett, Hartley-Melvin-Sanborn, Hudson, Ridge View, Saint Ansgar, Southwest Valley, Fort Dodge Saint Edmonds, West Fork, and West Monona drop from 1A to A, while Alta/Aurelia, BCLUW, Belmond-Klemme, Denver, Logan-Magnolia, Maquoketa Valley, Mount Ayr, Pleasantville, Tri Center, and Van Buren move from A to 1A

The cutoffs are:

610 largest 3A school (Norwalk); 318 smallest 3A school (Iowa Falls-Alden)​

315 largest 2A school (MOC Floyd Valley); 203 smallest 2A school (four come in at 203)​

202 largest 1A school (Tipton); 157 smallest 1A school (Clayton Ridge - they have Guthrie Center at 126 but I think that's a typo and should probably be 162)​

157 largest A school (Pekin)​

Can't lie, I would have rather seen Norwalk or DCG go to 4A as they both look like they can seriously challenge for the 3A title next year

Any thoughts on what the SE districts will look like now that 2 of the schools from 7 are now gone?

 

[PNation]

I'm wondering about NE Iowa losing Crestwood hurts travel time, especially if they are going with 8 team districts, Decorah is on an island more than anyone else, do they send them south by themselves and send Waverly and Charles City west, do they keep them together and send them towards CR, do they send Decorah all the way west to Algona and Humboldt among others tough to make districts in the 4 corners of the state.

 

[screwloose]

Since 3A doesn't have all the bitching and moaning about metro rivalries and completely unbalanced districts, they almost always set-up geographically. Which makes sorting things out a lot easier. I plotted all the 3A schools to a pin map and grouped them accordingly. My guess is the districts would look like this, provided there is a seven eight-team districts set-up...

DISTRICT 1...
Carroll
Denison-Schleswig
LeMars
Sergeant Bluff-Luton
Sioux City Heelan
Spencer
Spirit Lake
Storm Lake

DISTRICT 2...
Algona
Ballard
Boone
Gilbert
Humboldt
Iowa Falls-Alden
Nevada
Webster City

DISTRICT 3...
Center Point-Urbana
Charles City
Decorah
Dubuque Wahlert
Independence
Vinton-Shellsburg
Waverly-Shell Rock
West Delaware

DISTRICT 4...
Benton
Cedar Rapids Xavier
Clear Creek-Amana
Grinnell
Marion
Maquoketa
Solon
South Tama

DISTRICT 5...
Central Clinton
Davenport Assumption
Fairfield
Fort Madison
Keokuk
Mount Pleasant
Washington
West Burlington

DISTRICT 6...
Bondurant-Farrar
Carlisle
Dallas Center-Grimes
Knoxville
North Polk
Norwalk
Oskaloosa
Pella

DISTRICT 7...
Adel, ADM
Atlantic
Creston
Glenwood
Greene County
Harlan
Perry
Winterset

 

[Y2KG21]

Wouldn't there be 8 seven team districts? Top 2 in each district go to playoffs.

 

[KidSilverhair]

Rumor has it the state is going with 8-team districts for 2016-17. Coaches wanted more district games during the season, so this would get everybody 7 district games and only 2 non-district.

Playoff qualifiers would be top two from each district, then two "wild cards" by some yet-to-be-determined method.

 

[KidSilverhair]

Also, here's a map of the 3A schools, if anybody wants to see if they can best screwloose's districts.

I'm finding it pretty easy to get clumps of six schools grouped together in the corners of Iowa, but getting that seventh and eighth member is going to mean some travel.

https://www.mapcustomizer.com/map/3A Football

 

[Y2KG21]

How would you do wild cards....not sure I like that.

 

[KidSilverhair]

Well, the thought is that if it's obvious - say there was a three-way tie for first in a district - you take all three of those teams. However, nobody seems to know what's going to happen if there's three districts that have such a tie, or if no districts have a tie, or exactly how they're going to determine the selection of those two other teams.

From what I've gathered, the state is insistent they're not counting non-district games at all for playoff purposes, so whatever method they come up will be based on district games only.

 

[crus8rs]

Nebraska has a power points system and it works very well

 

[FLBP]

Since 3A doesn't have all the bitching and moaning about metro rivalries and completely unbalanced districts, they almost always set-up geographically. Which makes sorting things out a lot easier. I plotted all the 3A schools to a pin map and grouped them accordingly. My guess is the districts would look like this, provided there is a seven eight-team districts set-up...

DISTRICT 1...
Carroll
Denison-Schleswig
LeMars
Sergeant Bluff-Luton
Sioux City Heelan
Spencer
Spirit Lake
Storm Lake

DISTRICT 2...
Algona
Ballard
Boone
Gilbert
Humboldt
Iowa Falls-Alden
Nevada
Webster City

DISTRICT 3...
Center Point-Urbana
Charles City
Decorah
Dubuque Wahlert
Independence
Vinton-Shellsburg
Waverly-Shell Rock
West Delaware

DISTRICT 4...
Benton
Cedar Rapids Xavier
Clear Creek-Amana
Grinnell
Marion
Maquoketa
Solon
South Tama

DISTRICT 5...
Central Clinton
Davenport Assumption
Fairfield
Fort Madison
Keokuk
Mount Pleasant
Washington
West Burlington

DISTRICT 6...
Bondurant-Farrar
Carlisle
Dallas Center-Grimes
Knoxville
North Polk
Norwalk
Oskaloosa
Pella

DISTRICT 7...
Adel, ADM
Atlantic
Creston
Glenwood
Greene County
Harlan
Perry
Winterset

I really don't think your to far off. Districts 6 & 7 could possibly have some schools swap but pretty good geographic guess. Some pretty stout districts if you ask me. The bad thing is, at the end of the season. There are going to be some damn good teams left at home.

 

[screwloose]

I like the Nebraska Point System more than the old one that Iowa used. For a refresher, the Iowa system basically worked like this...
25 points per game
20 additional points per win
5 bonus points for every opponent above .500(5-4 or better)
in 4A, there was a 5 point penalty per class for playing an opponent below 4A

The Nebraska system has no penalty for playing a class below. It also has a multi-level system for points, which is something that's been discussed ad nauseam. The bonus points are already added for each level your opponent attains over the season.
7-2 / 8-1 / 9-0...50 points per win, 36 points per loss
5-4 / 6-3...47 points per win, 33 points per loss
3-6 / 4-5...44 points per win, 30 points per loss
0-9 / 1-8 / 2-7...41 points per win, 27 points per loss

 

[PNation]

If they are going to do wild cards I almost wish that they did only district champs get automatic qualifies and everyone else is at large and you take into account non district. Say for example you have two 5-4 2nd place teams that lost to 7-2 third place teams in non district who is more deserving of the playoff spot?

 

[screwloose]

I totally agree.

 

[paxregis]

Chances of multiple runners-ups at 5-4 overall is slim. With eight district games it most likely will take a 6-1 district record to finish 2nd. I don't think they can totally take non-conference results out of the wild card equation. Opponent's overall record would need to be utilized as a tiebreaker after head-to-head and the 13-point system if they maintain that.

 

[studman1]

According to Sundays Des Moines Register the IHSAA will decide to go to 7 Eight Team Districts or stay as 8 Seven Team Districts. The Register also said they 13 point system maybe changed to a 17 point system.

 

[Vroom_C14]

The state has posted the preliminary classifications for 2016-17 football on the IHSAA website. Here's the gist:

- Western Dubuque and Newton move up to 4A

- Boyden-Hull/Rock Valley, Chariton, Crestwood and Saydel drop from 3A to 2A, while Center Point-Urbana, Iowa Falls-Alden, North Polk, South Tama, Spirit Lake and West Burlington move from 2A to 3A

- Louisa-Muscatine, Okiboji, Tipton, and West Central Valley drop from 2A to 1A, while Dike-New Hartford, Eddyville-Blakesburg-Fremont, Pocahontas Area, South Central Calhoun, Underwood, and West Marshall move from 1A to 2A

- Alburnett, Hartley-Melvin-Sanborn, Hudson, Ridge View, Saint Ansgar, Southwest Valley, Fort Dodge Saint Edmonds, West Fork, and West Monona drop from 1A to A, while Alta/Aurelia, BCLUW, Belmond-Klemme, Denver, Logan-Magnolia, Maquoketa Valley, Mount Ayr, Pleasantville, Tri Center, and Van Buren move from A to 1A

The cutoffs are:

610 largest 3A school (Norwalk); 318 smallest 3A school (Iowa Falls-Alden)​

315 largest 2A school (MOC Floyd Valley); 203 smallest 2A school (four come in at 203)​

202 largest 1A school (Tipton); 157 smallest 1A school (Clayton Ridge - they have Guthrie Center at 126 but I think that's a typo and should probably be 162)​

157 largest A school (Pekin)​

If that is the breakdown, they could break up 3A into another level (300 count difference compared to 2A with a 100 count difference and 1A with 50 count difference). '

Could easily have the current 4A go to 5A then go 610 - 500 for 4A and 499-316 for 3A, etc.

 

[screwloose]

If that is the breakdown, they could break up 3A into another level (300 count difference compared to 2A with a 100 count difference and 1A with 50 count difference). '

Could easily have the current 4A go to 5A then go 610 - 500 for 4A and 499-316 for 3A, etc.

So 5A would be 48 teams.
Your 4A would be 9 teams.
3A would be 45 teams.
Etc.

This is really well thought out.

 

[KidSilverhair]

But then 4A would only need one district. Or two - the IHSAA would probably say two.

Tough to fill out a 16-team playoff field, though.

 

[Vroom_C14]

So 5A would be 48 teams.
Your 4A would be 9 teams.
3A would be 45 teams.
Etc.

This is really well thought out.

you can expand it based on numbers - it's not set in stone...Or just throw the privates in a league of their own and call that "4A"

 

[zonkeyjerky]

you can expand it based on numbers - it's not set in stone...Or just throw the privates in a league of their own and call that "4A"

So do I understand this correctly your plan would be to put all the private schools in the same class? Schools of 150 going against schools of 1000!

 

[KidSilverhair]

But think of the great rivalries that would be created! Cedar Valley Christian and Xavier; Western Christian and Heelan; Des Moines Christian and Dowling ... competitive, exciting rivalries! We'd be fools not to try it!

 

[PNation]

Give me $5 on Cedar Valley Christian over Xavier

 

[cidhawkeye]

So do I understand this correctly your plan would be to put all the private schools in the same class? Schools of 150 going against schools of 1000!

But it's being done in most of the other states and it works great

 

[screwloose]

Maybe...MAYBE...this could work in basketball or other sports, but this is a football forum. This whole private school idea is one the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

 

[Vroom_C14]

But think of the great rivalries that would be created! Cedar Valley Christian and Xavier; Western Christian and Heelan; Des Moines Christian and Dowling ... competitive, exciting rivalries! We'd be fools not to try it!

How's the IC Regina rivalry with Xavier?

 

[cidhawkeye]

How's the IC Regina rivalry with Xavier?

It stands at one victory apiece. Surprised you didn't know that, those games got some discussion on these boards when they happened.

 

[ghost80]

I like the Nebraska Point System more than the old one that Iowa used. For a refresher, the Iowa system basically worked like this...
25 points per game
20 additional points per win
5 bonus points for every opponent above .500(5-4 or better)
in 4A, there was a 5 point penalty per class for playing an opponent below 4A

The Nebraska system has no penalty for playing a class below. It also has a multi-level system for points, which is something that's been discussed ad nauseam. The bonus points are already added for each level your opponent attains over the season.
7-2 / 8-1 / 9-0...50 points per win, 36 points per loss
5-4 / 6-3...47 points per win, 33 points per loss
3-6 / 4-5...44 points per win, 30 points per loss
0-9 / 1-8 / 2-7...41 points per win, 27 points per loss

Something like this is miles ahead of trying to apply the 13 (or 17) point rule to determine wildcards. Unless everyone plays the same schedule (like in district play) the 13 point rule is terrible to use.

If you play and beat tough opponents you probably earn fewer points than a team who played and beat weak opponents by large margins.

Iowa actually did this years ago before all the consolidations when there were lower classes with more than 8 districts. It was a cluster with schools having identical records and the wildcard often going to the teams who played the weakest schedule which allowed them to beat everyone by 13+.

 

[Vroom_C14]

It stands at one victory apiece. Surprised you didn't know that, those games got some discussion on these boards when they happened.

THat was my point - it IS a rivalry, regardless of their size.

 

[cidhawkeye]

THat was my point - it IS a rivalry, regardless of their size.

Yes it is, are you trying to indicate that Cedar Valley Christian would then be able to be closely competitive with Xavier? Or are you just trying to pick one situation to recognize as a rivalry? If you could clarify that for me it would be great.

 

[Vroom_C14]

Yes it is, are you trying to indicate that Cedar Valley Christian would then be able to be closely competitive with Xavier? Or are you just trying to pick one situation to recognize as a rivalry? If you could clarify that for me it would be great.

CVC is 8man...

ICR, Dyersville, would play Xavier fine. Much like Xavier, Heelen and Assumption would play Dowling fine (Xavier has actually played Dowling competitively the past 2/3 years).

 

[cidhawkeye]

CVC is 8man...

ICR, Dyersville, would play Xavier fine. Much like Xavier, Heelen and Assumption would play Dowling fine (Xavier has actually played Dowling competitively the past 2/3 years).

24-2 and 44-13. Competitive?

 

[screwloose]

So 5A, 48 teams.

4A would have 19 teams, including...
West Des Moines Dowling, Cedar Rapids Xavier, Sioux City Heelan, Dubuque Wahlert, Davenport Assumption, Waterloo Columbus, Dyersville Beckman, Carroll Kuemper, Des Moines Christian, Iowa City Regina, Pella Christian, Unity Christian, Western Christian, Algona Garrigan, LeMars Gehlen, Grand View Christian, Council Bluffs St. Albert, Mason City Newman, Fort Dodge St. Edmond.

Did I miss anyone?

This is still well thought out.

 

[KidSilverhair]

24-2 and 44-13. Competitive?

That 24-2 game in 2014 was sort of competitive - Dowling got two TDs on short fields after interceptions, Xavier completely controlled the third quarter, and held Ryan Boyle to one of his worst games as a Dowling quarterback. Yes, Xavier's offense was mostly penned up by the Maroons, and yes, it was still a 22-point loss - but other than Valley, nobody else played Dowling as tough as Xavier did that year.

The 2013 championship game, well ... that wasn't competitive, I agree with you there.

I think it would have been interesting to see those two meet at Saints Field last August, just to see if Xavier could have caught them before they gelled and got their new offensive players going, but looking back at how quickly Dowling got rolling even without that first game ... maybe there's no such thing as catching Dowling too early.

 

[Vroom_C14]

So 5A, 48 teams.

4A would have 19 teams, including...
West Des Moines Dowling, Cedar Rapids Xavier, Sioux City Heelan, Dubuque Wahlert, Davenport Assumption, Waterloo Columbus, Dyersville Beckman, Carroll Kuemper, Des Moines Christian, Iowa City Regina, Pella Christian, Unity Christian, Western Christian, Algona Garrigan, LeMars Gehlen, Grand View Christian, Council Bluffs St. Albert, Mason City Newman, Fort Dodge St. Edmond.

Did I miss anyone?

This is still well thought out.

Please give your thoughts on how to make it more competitive oh great thoughtful one!

 

[screwloose]

I don't think there is any real way to make things fair. Any way of splitting teams is subjective. The difference between lumping all private schools together is knee-jerk, thinking all private schools have elite programs. Maybe as a general rule compared to schools their size they do. But how is a private A school going to compete with a private 4A or 3A school? It's not possible. You're more likely to see kids get their careers ended on the field than see anything close on the scoreboard.

Splitting schools by enrollment may not be the most fair but its process is concrete, not subjective. You came on here spewing a completely stupid idea. I see nobody coming to your defense, because it makes no sense. 48 teams in one class, 19 in another? Really? Leave it be. No matter how you split things, the teams that are the best now are still going to make the playoffs.

 

[Vroom_C14]

I don't think there is any real way to make things fair. Any way of splitting teams is subjective. The difference between lumping all private schools together is knee-jerk, thinking all private schools have elite programs. Maybe as a general rule compared to schools their size they do. But how is a private A school going to compete with a private 4A or 3A school? It's not possible. You're more likely to see kids get the careers ended on the field than see anything close on the scoreboard.

Splitting schools by enrollment may not be the most fair but its process is concrete, not subjective. You came on here spewing a completely stupid idea. I see nobody coming to your defense, because it makes no sense. 48 teams in one class, 19 in another? Really? Leave it be. No matter how you split things, the teams that are the best now are still going to make the playoffs.

I don't require someone to come to my defense... I was simply offering ideas (off the cuff) but of course you resort to what you do best.

A vs 3A or 4A I give you 1A Regina vs 3A Xavier (the year they moved down from 4A) - FYI it is 1-1 for that match up (most private schools are in the 1a-3a classification by the way).

"The teams that are the best now are still going to make the playoffs" - Screwloose

 

[screwloose]

There's a big difference between Iowa City Regina and "Joe Average" lower class parochial school. Sure, they're 1-1 against Cedar Rapids Xavier. So does that mean the other will be? Hell no. And when it comes down to the truth, those games between Iowa City Regina and Cedar Rapids Xavier don't mean anything, they're non-district games. When it doesn't count towards playoff qualifying, who cares?

What you're suggesting is putting all those schools in a class by themselves. When all those games count, who's going to win almost all of the time? West Des Moines Dowling, Cedar Rapids Xavier, Davenport Assumption, Sioux City Heelan and, perhaps, Iowa City Regina. Teams that make the playoffs anyway.

Saying I resort to what I do best, what is that supposed to mean? I'm not the average hot head who gets on here and posts out of emotion. I think clearly about what I want to articulate. I'd like to think I have a general respect of most people that visit this site. If I'm wrong, I'll leave. Maybe you wanna run a poll on that one?

I didn't come on here and make a post that suggested a 48-team 5A class, a 9-team 4A class, etc. You did that. All I said was that it was "well thought out", which it clearly wasn't. I'm done with this "discussion" because you have brought nothing productive to it.

 

[cidhawkeye]

I think 'off the cuff' and using Regina as the example might not be the best tactics.

 

[Vroom_C14]

Could really care less - on to other things.