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Post Week 6, 4A Playoff Pairings

S

screwloose

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Sep 27, 2002
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AUTOMATICS(Overall RPI Ranking)
D-1: West Des Moines Dowling, 4-2(#12)
D-2: Ankeny Centennial, 6-0(#1)
D-3: Cedar Falls, 6-0(#2)
D-4: Iowa City West, 5-1(#6)
D-5: Bettendorf, 5-1(#8)
D-6: Indianola, 6-0(#3)
D-7: West Des Moines Valley, 6-0(#4)

WILD CARDS(Overall RPI Ranking)
Fort Dodge, 5-1(#5)
Johnston, 5-1(#7)
Cedar Rapids Prairie, 5-1(#9)
Davenport North, 5-1(#10)
Waukee, 4-2(#11)
Ames, 4-2(#13)
Muscatine, 4-2(#14)
Cedar Rapids Kennedy, 4-2(#15)
Sioux City East, 4-2(#16)

PROJECTED FIRST ROUND PAIRINGS(set for Quarterfinals)
16: Sioux City East @ 1: Ankeny Centennial
9: Cedar Rapids Prairie @ 12: West Des Moines Dowling

15: Cedar Rapids Kennedy @ 2: Cedar Falls
10: Davenport North @ 8: Bettendorf

13: Ames @ 3: Indianola
14: Muscatine @ 6: Iowa City West

11: Waukee @ 4: West Des Moines Valley
7: Johnston @ 5: Fort Dodge

NOTE: Fort Dodge, as the highest rated RPI at-large, slots in as the #5 seed. It doesn't say in the ISHAA's literature, that the at-large has to slot in as the 8th overall seed. Although, theoretically, swapping Johnston/Fort Dodge and CR Prairie/WDM Dowling would not hurt the tree's overall geography.
 
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It appears they are done somewhat with the 8/8 Split. In fact your calculations put 10 teams in from the West.

Even the RPI shows 10 teams getting in from the West
 
They pretty much had to after the boys in Boone crippled Eastern Iowa the last 5 years. Only 18 teams in eastern Iowa now, to 24 in Central/Western Iowa, not to mention an odd number of districts. If Eastern Iowa even gets 7 teams, just out of sheer numbers disparity, they would be doing well. While decisions like implementing the RPI system should be lauded, the elimination of the eighth district, (and 6 teams, 4 being eastern Iowa teams) seems dubious, given the supposed motives of the IHSAA to create more competitive balance. The RPI system, and the newfound freedom to schedule more competitive non-district games have already accomplished that. Most of the teams that were forced down to 3A were actually competitive teams. I think they need to (and ultimately will) change that in 2020.
 
I dont know CF 93, Ive seen some pretty stupid stuff over the years and The new districts, the playoffs and the RPI System is on top of the list.

I know you like the RPI system and I am 50/50 on it and here is one or several reasons.

1) We are not college football, in the end college football is a money maker and has way to many teams. So having a RPI system makes sense to help determine who gets in and who plays who in the Championship series.

2) If you are going to install a RPI system in the state of Iowa, then you should see it all the way the way through. I dont care who you are and where you are from #16 should play #1. Here is why to that.

A) The state is already scheduling teams like Bettendorf aganst Valley at least last year and before. If they can schedule that in the regular season, they can sure do it in the playoffs.

B) The CB and SC schools will have to travel to the UNI Dome at least twice if they want to play in the Chamionship Game. Id they run the table then very good chance they could travel all the way through, but not likely. Here is the solution to that.

1) Go back to the 8/8 split and use the RPI system at least until the Semis, where traveling is a must to the Dome.

2)To minimize traveling, eliminate the Semis in the Dome.

This is why I am split on it, dont put in a system you dont intend to use as it original purpose. I do not think they know what they are doing.

My guess is in two years, the playoffs will be up to 24 teams and we will be back to East/ West split with the RPI determining everything
 
For one thing, I don’t have a problem seeding straight up 1-16, now that all playoff games are on Friday nights anyway. It was only a problem when you had school the next day after Wednesday or Monday night play off game. We no longer have to worry about that madness where Cedar Falls Had to travel out to Sioux City on a Monday night, get back home around 3:00 AM, and be back to school Tuesday morning, as they did in 1999. So I agree, geography does not necessarily need to be taken into account anymore.

True, this is not college football here. However, the lunacy of having only 5 games that count (while the injuries that come from the other 4 meaningless games are just as real) had to go. If a player can be hurt, then that game should at least count for something. That’s why it’s good that at least now, all nine games count again. This is another benefit of the RPI system. If the only thing that is going to factor into the season is the injuries from a meaningless game, then the game shouldn’t be played.

As for the number of playoff teams, I don’t think it should ever go above 16 again. I think you need to only reward teams that do have good seasons. (No one below 6-3 should ever be in the playoffs, except the extremely rare year where there aren’t 16 teams in the state that are 6-3 or better) It was pretty absurd when there were 32 teams, and there were 2-7 teams getting into the playoffs. Not to mention that if we go back to five rounds of playoffs (which even a 24 teams, you’d have, and a bunch of byes), which means we would most likely go back to Wednesday, Monday, Friday play off games. That simply cannot happen. That playoff format was yet another dinosaur that needed to die.

Anyway, as I’ve said before, I think the beauty of this RBI system will be revealed by the time the playoffs roll around.

As for whether not to include the semi‘s in the dome, you can take it or leave it. The whole reason that the semi‘s were moved to the dome was that Eastern Iowa teams were already playing there, winning state championships every year, and Central/Western Iowa teams felt that was putting them at a competitive disadvantage since they weren’t as accustomed to it. The whole concept of playing on Astroturf was a pretty novel concept at the time where 99% of teams were playing on natural grass. So apart from CF, the late NUHS, and the Quad City schools that played at Brady Street, nobody else was accustomed to artificial turf. Now, nearly everyone plays on field turf, Mondoturf, or some similar variant. At least in 4A, almost everyone plays on artificial turf now. And those that still don’t most likely will be in the next 5-10 years, as natural grass stadiums seem to be going the way of the dinosaur.
 
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Some great points by both of you. Agree that with the new Friday format, travel shouldn’t by a factor in first two rounds. I think CF, Bettendorf, IC, Valley and SE Polk all traveled for nondistrict games over the last few years. Hell, Boone’s district make up causes more weekly travel in the West than you would get on most playoff match-up scenarios.

I have no issues with the new RPI, and again it will only produce desired outcome at end of year. Need to take the “Boone back room” out of equation. Seed 1-16, set up bracket and go.
 
And even in the unlikely event you get a Sioux City or Council Bluffs matchup against one of the old MAC schools, play it in one of the Des Moines area stadiums then...Drake Stadium might be perfect for a neutral site game if that ever happens.

Don't get me wrong though, I still think every effort should be made for the higher seeded team to host, regardless of geography.
 
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If you're going to have a neutral site game, before the semifinals, what's the point even playing for home field advantage? You all can bitch and whine and cry and moan, but deep down, you better get ready for regionalized playoff match-ups. You know it's going to happen.

Not only that, theoretically, if a team is seeded in the top 8 and get home field, they should beat everyone seeded from 9-16. I realize it doesn't always happen that way, but it should in theory. And if that's the case, if you move seeds around a little bit to get closer proximity travel, that the state will not have to reimburse, it shouldn't matter.

This is all the same principle as random draws for major tennis tournaments, random pod system.
== First 1 and 2 seeds are placed on opposite sides of the bracket.
== Secondly, 3 and 4 seeds are placed in semifinals, randomly, with the 1 and 2 seeds.
== Thirdly, the 5 through 8 seeds are placed in quarterfinals, randomly, with the 1 through 4 seeds .
== Fourth, the 9 through 16 are placed in the fourth to last round, randomly, with the 1 through 8 seeds.
== Etc., Etc., Etc.
 
I don't see the state going to straight seeds, damn the geography. If your top seed is Bettendorf, for instance, and number 16 is Sioux City East (humor me) I just can't imagine the state scheduling a road trip from Sioux City to Bettendorf. Geography has always been a consideration, and I think it always will be. Plus, district champions are going to host the first round; even if a wild card team has a better RPI than some district champion, the wild card team goes on the road for the first round. It's kind of like the disadvantages the wild-card playoff teams face in baseball; if you didn't want to have to mess with travel and screwing up your rotation for the Division Series, you should have won your division.

Ideally, of course, you want to make your best effort at getting the top 4 teams into the semifinals. As screwloose says, I think you can get pretty close to that even while using geography to cut down on travel in the first two rounds. It may not be perfect, but it won't be a disaster, either.
 
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Don’t mind a potential seeding “bump” 1 line to reduce travel where possible but it hard to accept the “travel concerns” from Boone when they schedule district games for teams like SC West to Des Moines (twice) and to Marshalltown all within a 5 week span....SC to Quad Cities for a playoff game is an extra couple of hours.

Win your district if you don’t want to travel. I can guarantee you there won’t be any less fans traveling to watch their team 5 hrs away than they would have 3 hrs away.
 
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I dont think people a bitching and moaning, this is a simply a pretty good conversation. Years ago teams would play the final game of the regular season, only to facec them in the 1st Round.

Im just stating why use the RPI system to get the best teams in the playoffs if your not going to play it out to the end as intended.

The only way the RPI would be worth the time. Is go back to the East/West split and use the RPI system to seed each half of the state.

Then I can see a use for it, otherwise I do not think it is worth the time
 
Finally some word from Boone. ( taken from IAHSAA website-Postseason Manual)

SITE ASSIGNMENTS CLASSES 4A, 3A, 2A, 1A, A, 8-PLAYER
For the first round games:
The RPI at the end of week 9 will be used to determine site assignments for first round contests.
When a district champion plays a district champion, the district champion with the highest RPI will be the home team.
When a district champion plays an at-large qualifier, the district champion will be the home team.
For the quarterfinal-round games:
The RPI at the end of week 9 will be used to determine site assignments for quarterfinal round contests.
For semifinal round games:
The RPI at the end of week 9 will be used to determine site assignments for semi-final round contests.
All teams will play in the UNI-Dome, Cedar Falls. The IHSAA will use the RPI to seed the remaining 4 teams in each class. The team with the highest RPI will play the team with the 4th highest RPI and the team with the 2nd highest RPI will play the team with the 3rd highest RPI. The two teams with the highest RPI’s will be considered the home teams.

CLASS 4A, 3A, 2A, 1A, A & 8-Player PLAYOFF ASSIGNMENTS/PAIRINGS
CLASS 4A 3A, 2A, 1A, A & 8-Player:
1st Round-
District Champions have the opportunity to host

In Class 4A, one at-large qualifier with the highest RPI will have the opportunity to host.
In Classes 3A, 2A, and 1A, one district champion with the lowest RPI will be a traveling team.
In Class A, two district champions with the lowest RPI’s will be traveling teams.
All attempts will be made to avoid champions and runner-ups from the same district playing in the first round. Champions and additional qualifiers from the same district beside the runner-ups could be assigned to play each other in the first round.
Preset brackets will be made for the playoffs through the quarterfinals.
All attempts will be made to create as close to a “true” bracketing format using the RPI to seed to the first two rounds. Geography will be the final factor when creating brackets.
Quarterfinal Round-
The RPI at the end of week 9 will be used to determine site assignments for quarterfinal round contests.
Semifinal Round-
The RPI at the end of week 9 will be used to determine site assignments for quarterfinal round contests.
The IHSAA will use the RPI to seed the remaining 4 teams in each class. The team with the highest RPI will play the team with the 4th highest RPI and the team with the 2nd highest RPI will play the team with the 3rd highest RPI. The two teams with the highest RPI’s will be considered the home teams.
Final Round-
The RPI at the end of week 9 will be used to determine site assignments for final round contests.
The two semi-finalist winners will play in the final round. The team with the highest RPI will be considered the home team.
 
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Pretty sure there's one thing in there that EVERYBODY here likes...they're going to use the RPI to reseed the semifinals in each class. It sounds like the First Round is going to be paired exactly the way I've been posting and saying it would be done. The Quarterfinals are going to be bracketed as best as they can, towards a true seeding tree. I haven't been posting them this way, but I like that they're not going to reseed either.

I'll edit my pairings above to show them quartered.
 
Agree with Screwloose. Appears to get to the best solution while still allowing for a little “travel” flexibilty during first two rounds. Can’t argue with your pairings (given the caveat of top 16 positions as of today).

However, I think we will see some major changes in last three weeks. Most notably:

1) SC East and Davenport North will probably not win again and get replaced by teams like Pleasant Valley and Ankeny (who shouldn’t lose again.)
2) Also think winner of Ames/Urbandale gets in and loser doesn’t.
3) Dowling probably gets to 7th spot by end of year with Ft. Dodge getting home game as #8 and highest at large.

Could even look something like:

16 Ankeny @ 1 Centennial
9 Waukee @ 8 Ft. Dodge

13 Johnston. @ 4 Valley
12 Pleasant Valley @ 5 IC West

15 CR Kennedy @ 2 Cedar Falls
10 Ames/Urbandale winner @ 7 Dowling

14 Muscatine @ 3 Indianola
11 CR Prairie @ 6 Bettendorf

Possible line move with Ames/Urbandale @ Dowling and CR Prairie @ Bettendorf if travel is factored in. Going to get cross over in 1st two rounds either way I believe.

Going to be fun to watch!
 
mthawkeyes said:
The end result is that the #1 RPI will likely have to play Dowling in the semis. Tough draw.
Click to expand...

Actually in the old system this was guaranteed if #1 seed was from West. With this system, Centennial could be #1 and not meet Dowling (assuming they make it) until the finals. Just need Dowling to be the 2nd or 3rd remaining highest seed (in this example.)
 
All I’m hearing from everyone is blah..blah..blah...Travel here to there....then over there.......Well guess what. SC East WILL travel to Bettendorf and WE WILL whoop their A$$. Whether our seed is 99 or number one. Whether it’s 3:00am on a Sunday morning in April or 7pm Friday night in November. Infact, this goes for any other “team” East has to play. EAST is more than a team, EAST IS AN ARMY with multiple divisions and branches ready to fight any opponent to the death....AT ANYTIME.

The schedule makers realize this, and that is why SC East has to play the toughest schedule EVERY YEAR. We are to IA HS football what the U.S military is to NATO. And that’s the way God intended it to be
 
Kraftwerk said:
All I’m hearing from everyone is blah..blah..blah...Travel here to there....then over there.......Well guess what. SC East WILL travel to Bettendorf and WE WILL whoop their A$$. Whether our seed is 99 or number one. Whether it’s 3:00am on a Sunday morning in April or 7pm Friday night in November. Infact, this goes for any other “team” East has to play. EAST is more than a team, EAST IS AN ARMY with multiple divisions and branches ready to fight any opponent to the death....AT ANYTIME.

The schedule makers realize this, and that is why SC East has to play the toughest schedule EVERY YEAR. We are to IA HS football what the U.S military is to NATO. And that’s the way God intended it to be
Click to expand...
giphy.gif
 
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This will be very close to the final RPI
Bold = Champs

1 Ank Cent
2 CF
3 Valley
4 Johnston
5 IC West
6 Bett
7 Dowling
8 CR Prairie
9 Waukee
10 FD
11 Ind
12 CR Ken
13 PV
14 Ames/ Urb
15 Musc
16 SEP

I see the match ups as follows

1 AC Waukee 9
2 CF FD 10
3 Val Ind 11
4 Johnston SEP 16
5 ICW CRK 12
6 Bett Musc 15
7 Dowling Ames/Urb 14
8 CRP PV 13

This eliminates all rematches and accounts for travel


If you go by seeding

1 AC SEP 16 rematch
2 CF FD 10
3 Val Ames/Urb 14 rematch
4 Johnston Ind 11 rematch
5 ICW Musc 15 rematch
6 Bett PV 13 rematch
7 Dowling Waukee 9 rematch
8 CRP CRK 12 rematch

Champs and runner ups kept apart by rule

so ACent could play SEP
Val could play Waukee
Johnston play Ind

in the first grouping I had
 
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SEP will not be in the playoffs this year. They already have 5 losses, even with a relatively strong SOS. It's going to be virtually mathematically impossible for them to make it, even by winning out.
 
I cannot knock SC East, cause they have a new General leading those brave young men.

Hopefuly " Little Big Horn" never gets repeated.
 
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CF_93 said:
SEP will not be in the playoffs this year. They already have 5 losses, even with a relatively strong SOS. It's going to be virtually mathematically impossible for them to make it, even by winning out.
Click to expand...
Ankeny will be #16.
If Dav North can somehow knock off Pleasant Valley or Muscatine, then Ankeny would move up to #15 and SEP would be #16.
Edit: Or if Linn-Mar beats Muscatine.
 
I just also noticed that whoever is inputting data in the RPI has made numerous discrepancies of records coming into week 7. It has Muscatine at 4-2, when they were in fact at 3-3. They also messed up Pleasant Valley's record, saying they were 2-4, when they were in fact 1-5. Davenport West at 1-5, when they were 2-4. Davenport Central at 3-3, when they were 4-2. I haven't looked at opponents record, or opponents opponents record closely enough to know if there was a trickle down effect there from that mistake or not. If so, I hope whoever's in charge of that has fun correcting these oversights! Someone's not paying too close attention to detail in inputting data to the RPI.
 
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ISUChip said:
Muscatine had itself at 4-2:
Away 08/24/2018 @Davenport, Central W 23-6
Home 08/31/2018 Cedar Rapids, Jefferson W 40-37
Away 09/06/2018 @Davenport, West W 14-13
Home 09/14/2018 Johnston L 7-42
Home 09/21/2018 Iowa City, City High W 46-17
Away 09/28/2018 @Pleasant Valley L 35-49
Click to expand...


Muscatine LOST to Davenport Central 23-6.

(edit: Ok, it's the IAHSAA site that is wrong. It posted Central as having won in week 1) I suspect that's where there are other misakes as well. So Muscatine did indeed win week 1. And the IAHSAA.org site also has the overall standings jacked up as well.
 
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Yeah, I actually just went to that site as you were posting this and confirmed it. Someone at iahsaa.org is actually the one that is messing up these scores and overall standings. Pleasant Valley also BEAT Davenport Central, where IAHSAA.org has them having lost to Central.

So to make a long story short, the RPI is likely correct, and the IAHSAA.org site has incorrectly posted overall standings and game scores.:rolleyes:
 
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It's high school football, so upsets happen but:

Projected to be in:
1. Dowling, Ankeny
2. Centennial, Fort Dodge
3. Cedar Falls, Prairie
4. IC West, Pleasant Valley
5. Bettendorf, Kennedy
6. Johnston, Waukee, Indianola
7. Valley, Urbandale/Ames winner

Last spot:
Davenport North if they go 6-3 by losing to Pleasant Valley and beating Muscatine.
If Muscatine beats North, then Southeast Polk will take the last spot.
 
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