Team looks pretty promising this year. People to look out for: Johnny Wander long jumping and Derik Lau running 800s. Correct me if im wrong i believe wander jumped nearly 21 last year. Also Derik Lau almost broke 2 mins in the 4 by 8 last year.
NFV Track
- Thread starter ImAFlamer32
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18 feet is listed on quikstats and that is a pretty big gap from 21. NFV will be 2A at least and that means facing Monticello. The open 8 can still be won, but it's going to be won in the winter. Who's going to put in the work?
I completely agree with you on Wander and Lau. Those two will definitely be running and jumping at state. Another two to look out for is Dakota Moore and Hunter Rowray tossing around the shot put and discus. Also don't keep your eye off Kohle Nieland running 100s and 200s. Last watch out for Jared Bouska. This kid is an absolute freak in the high jump. He had a down year last year dealing with injuries. Great shot at state for this young man!
Should be a fun year for this group!
Should be a fun year for this group!
Wow just read these posts and you had me intrigued on who these guys were. I went searching for them. I don't think Monticello is concerned. I wish those athletes a great season but your understanding of times and distances isn't very good. All times and distances can be looked up on this thing called quick stats.
Wander was jumping 20+ before season during practice, but dealt with an ankle sprain in his jumping foot the whole year. As for the rest of the NFV Track team i think jen44 hit it right on the money!
I think that thrower looks good. The long jumper could have a big season. Not so sure about the others mentioned. . Nothing on quick stats with the high jumper. Who is he and what has he jumped? What grade level? How high do you think he will jump this year? Can he qualify for Drake or State?
1's and 2's are tough races to overcome talent in. You're either fast or your not. Hurdles you can at least work on form to minimize mistakes. Long jump is extremely talent oriented as well, but consistency is just as important. The 800 is 75% heart and 25% natural speed. Throwing can also be greatly improved with form and consistency. Best of luck to your guys, but if they are serious about a title or being a medalist at state, the time to work is now.
I follow mostly 1A and 2A. I know Monticello will still have a lot of horses this year. A lot of it depends on the classifications for this year.
North Fayette/Valley CEW
North always has a good solid team. Usually have a core group of good sprinters and good field events. Generally a good SH. Generally they don't have much from 400-3200..... at least not as far as scoring pts. at state. Although, they do have a really good younger runner who went top 10 2A in CC this fall.
They were 5th or 6th at districts last year and did not score any points at state.
They will be a better team this year than last year for sure. But, they will not challenge a team like monticello or some of the other top couple teams.
Also, they are going to be RIGHT on the border for being in 3A rather than 2A. Hard to say which way they will fall when the final classifications come out.
North always has a good solid team. Usually have a core group of good sprinters and good field events. Generally a good SH. Generally they don't have much from 400-3200..... at least not as far as scoring pts. at state. Although, they do have a really good younger runner who went top 10 2A in CC this fall.
They were 5th or 6th at districts last year and did not score any points at state.
They will be a better team this year than last year for sure. But, they will not challenge a team like monticello or some of the other top couple teams.
Also, they are going to be RIGHT on the border for being in 3A rather than 2A. Hard to say which way they will fall when the final classifications come out.
Help I'm getting confused of what team we are talking about. Some of these athletes are on different teams. Valley of Elgin or North Fayette. I finally found the "freak" in the high jump at 5'2" once I realized he is North Fayette. The Wander (long jump kid) kid is not from North Fayette. Pleas Help me figure this out.
Last year, Valley CEW (1A) and North Fayette (2A) were separate High School's. This year they are combined and will be on the border between 2A and 3A. If you go to Quikstats and look under "upper iowa conference" you can see what both teams had. They will be a good team this spring. However, some of the original assertions in the thread are fairly "optimistic."
Don't let the secret out or there will be 200 state champs by the time they are seniors. I'm pretty sure the top kids in the state "never stop running" but only 4 will be state champs each year. If that was all it took, it would be awfully simple to just be the one who runs the most.
As a distance runner you have opportunities in the 800, 1600, and 3200 to win by yourself. Medleys are typically won with the 800 runners, but you need a pretty good 400 for help. The 4x8 is also another opportunity for distance runners. Then you can switch sports and have a good shot in cross country as well. 6 opportunities for distance runners in 1 class alone. It's also not simple to be the one who runs the most. Only 1 kid can do that. If somebody is willing to be that 1 kid, it's going to be tough to deny them of a title.
I'll just add a few items that might be a bump in the road for anyone thinking that if they just run more than anyone else, they are entitled by volume; Pollard, Melchert, Austin, Meier etc... All 2A & 3A runners but happen to be a few of the elites in Iowa history. Maybe this young runner will develop into one of the top Iowa runners by his senior year, I hope so since it sounds like he has a good attitude about preparation. However, the trend is that it just isn't getting any easier to be the best just because you run more than others. Better have some speed, talent etc... to go with that winning attitude. Did I mention good health and some luck? All one can do is their very best daily to have their best chance. No gaurantees.
Agreed. According to Coach Vigil; The 4 critical elements to running success are Genetics, Motivation, Environment & the Training Plan. Which ones can you control and which you can't? It's the motivated, genetic freaks with the resources to gain a good coach in a great environment with training partners that are hard to beat.
In Iowa's bubble, who has the best situation for distance runners the past decade or two? I'm willing to say Pleasant Valley & Cedar Falls then Linn-Mar & Dowling more recently. Iowa City High had a heck of a decade in the 90's with both large schools still consistently competitive. All have population density (odds of good talent pool), tradition, good coaches and descent location (as far as Iowa goes). Whatever is going on in Monticello has been working well too. In the past, there have been good programs with Waukon under Coach Heidelbaugher, Dubuque Sr under Coach Boughton and Des Moines Roosevelt under Coach Brown in other parts of the state. Back in the 60's Sioux City had some great runners but their cross country competitions were quite different than they are today. Their track times would lead me to believe they would have had some great XC teams. Outside of a handful of individuals, I'm having a hard time remembering a highly competitive team from that area or Council Bluffs. Anyone have any insight as to why that is? There's got to be some talent there that just isn't getting identified and developed.
In Iowa's bubble, who has the best situation for distance runners the past decade or two? I'm willing to say Pleasant Valley & Cedar Falls then Linn-Mar & Dowling more recently. Iowa City High had a heck of a decade in the 90's with both large schools still consistently competitive. All have population density (odds of good talent pool), tradition, good coaches and descent location (as far as Iowa goes). Whatever is going on in Monticello has been working well too. In the past, there have been good programs with Waukon under Coach Heidelbaugher, Dubuque Sr under Coach Boughton and Des Moines Roosevelt under Coach Brown in other parts of the state. Back in the 60's Sioux City had some great runners but their cross country competitions were quite different than they are today. Their track times would lead me to believe they would have had some great XC teams. Outside of a handful of individuals, I'm having a hard time remembering a highly competitive team from that area or Council Bluffs. Anyone have any insight as to why that is? There's got to be some talent there that just isn't getting identified and developed.
Monticello was unreal in 2013, good luck beating them in 2A. Anyone high jumping in 2A will need to dethrone Giannettino, that's no short order...
This post was edited on 11/21 2:15 PM by TracktownIA
This post was edited on 11/21 2:15 PM by TracktownIA
Class 2A
Looking at last year and who is coming back the biggest question is who will challenge for 2nd. Monticello will run away with title. The events they are good in are low risk events. No worries about dropping baton in 4x100 or 4x200. Even if they have 1 injury I think they will be too strong to dethrone this year. Next year I see a team challenging them. I don't know who will challenge for that runner-up trophy in class 2A this year, looking at last years 2-10 finishers no team really sticks out, Anyone know if a strong team got stronger by a transfer?
Looking at last year and who is coming back the biggest question is who will challenge for 2nd. Monticello will run away with title. The events they are good in are low risk events. No worries about dropping baton in 4x100 or 4x200. Even if they have 1 injury I think they will be too strong to dethrone this year. Next year I see a team challenging them. I don't know who will challenge for that runner-up trophy in class 2A this year, looking at last years 2-10 finishers no team really sticks out, Anyone know if a strong team got stronger by a transfer?
Some good 1A teams could possibly be bumping up, but it's not going to be enough to stop the juggernaut of Monticello this year.
I agree Cardinal, It looks like the number will be 160/161 and if that is the case after looking at the preliminary basketball numbers there will be some really good 1-A teams from last year bumping up this year, thats not an easy move to make. There will also be some solid teams dropping to 1A. Could be an interesting spring!
You clearly do not understand distance running. Simply running the most does not equate a state title, but you claim if someone is willing to be that 1 kid, then it will be tough to deny a title. You completely missed my point. There is a lot more to it than "never stops running"
Simply running does not equate to a title. While this is true, it is also the most important thing of winning a championship. Show me a distance runner, specifically an 800-Mile guy that has won the title without "simply running". Somebody that has just showed up with mediocre at best work ethic and won.
The real point I was saying, which shouldn't even require explanation, is that if one kid is going to go above and beyond and run more than everyone else, then they obviously have a real psychological advantage. Most people would agree that distance running comes down to guts. Go read a little bit about Steve Prefontaine if you think otherwise. I'm not talking a guy that runs 100 yards more than everybody else, but more like 1-2 hard miles a week more than the next guy in line. If someone is willing to put in the dedication of running 30-35 miles per week with a good percentage of those being hard miles, then yes I stand by my statement it will be tough to deny them a title. This is 1A and 2A high school track in Iowa. We aren't talking about the Olympics. Not to mention that this kid that we are talking about placed 6th in the state as a sophomore. We aren't talking about some schmuck that decided to start jogging one day. Show me a distance runner that said winning a championship was easy, it's always tough denying other people titles. I'm not guaranteeing this kid a championship, but simply running the most is going to give him the best opportunity to win. He can't control his genetics. He can't hire or fire his coach. He can only control what he is going to do to prepare himself.
My problem with your statement came from mocking the guy who said the kid "never stops running" and then saying if that's all it took there would be 200 state champs by the time they are seniors. Only one kid can run the most in the offseason and only 1 will be state champion (in a given event and class track or cross country). They may or may not be the same kid, but "simply running" is perhaps the second most important step, behind wanting it more than anybody else. Something I believe is not simple. If kids are competing side by side for who can run the most miles in the offseason, say an 8 month span, do you think the number of miles is going to be in the tens? 100? 200? 500? To think that any kid that wants to can go out and run even 25 miles a weeks for 8 months straight can do it rather "simply" is a bit far fetched to me. But what do I know? I clearly don't understand distance running.
Yes, my sarcasm was a little harsh with the 200 state champions bit.
You definitely underscored my point that people on this board don't get distance running.
Running more than everyone else does not equal psychological advantage. It may lead to an aerobic advantage. It may be a sign of a psychological DISORDER, exercise-induced anorexia.
30-35 miles per week is low for many of the girls programs at the 3A-4A level. It's hardly going to equate a huge advantage for a 1A-2A boy. Over an 8-month period, the top guys will run 2000-2500 miles.
Yes, I'm familiar with Steve Prefontaine. He's the athlete that ran with terrible pacing tactics. Have you ever read about Nick Symmonds, he's the OLYMPIAN who needs less than 50 miles per week to dominate every professional American at 800m. It again underscores that mileage alone is not the answer. Leo Manzano, Olympic 1500 medalist, also is on lower mileage.
How many boys do you know of that are running 6 miles a day and leaving 1-2 days a week for recovery consistently over an 8 month span. That's 30-35 a week.
2000 miles over 8 months. We'll call it 30 days a month, I know some have 31. At the lower end of your estimate, 1A and 2A boys are running 8.33 miles per day without taking any days off for recovery. 2500 miles bumps up to 10.4 miles per day. No recovery again. If this is what kids are running now days, then perhaps I am out of the loop.
2000 miles over 8 months. We'll call it 30 days a month, I know some have 31. At the lower end of your estimate, 1A and 2A boys are running 8.33 miles per day without taking any days off for recovery. 2500 miles bumps up to 10.4 miles per day. No recovery again. If this is what kids are running now days, then perhaps I am out of the loop.
I was also trying to emphasize that 1A and 2A champions are not olympic caliber. Something I know you agree on. The talent level isn't always there for year to year and that is apparent when looking at the winning times. I am one who believe running more than everybody else will give a mental advantage. When coming up to a race and knowing you put in more work than everybody gives you some confidence. To me it is similar to what Dan Gable used to say about steroid users. He did not care, in fact he welcomed it because he viewed it as cheating in the training. He knew that they didn't suffer through the same things he did and that he could use that to break them mentally, then physically. Just my opinion on the matter of becoming a distance champion in high school track.
Perhaps you'd be willing to educate me on some of the workouts you know that champions have done? Off-season or in-season. It sounds like you know your stuff and I'm willing to listen if you're willing to teach.
Perhaps you'd be willing to educate me on some of the workouts you know that champions have done? Off-season or in-season. It sounds like you know your stuff and I'm willing to listen if you're willing to teach.
The #1 qualification for success (state champion success) at the HS level is talent - pure, freakish talent. A kid with great talent+moderate work ethic will beat a kid with moderate ability and a great work ethic 9 out of 10 times (in my opinion). I know that is not something everyone likes to hear - and it does not mesh well with all of the motivational quotes that are out there - but it is a fact. The vast majority of individual state championships are won by some pretty darn talented kids (who also compete hard and work reasonably hard or better).
That is not to say that kids of average ability cannot have great success by working hard - they can. I have personally coached kids who ran 23-26 min. for 5K as freshmen go on to be individual state qualifiers in CC..... a great accomplishment in my opinion. I have also coached individuals that were state champions and among the best individuals in the state - not one of them was of average ability. All of them combined rare talent with a good work ethic and a killer instinct when it came time to compete.
Again - not trying to slight hard work - hard work can lead to some great successes. But there are extraordinarily few "average" kids who win state titles by working hard and having guts. Guts do not do you a whole lot of good when you are building up lactic acid because you cannot deliver enough oxygen to your muscles and the kid you are racing is not in the redzone yet.....
Not to equate HS running with the olympics, but, I always like the example of someone like Michael Johnson - everyone always talks about how "relaxed" he looks, or "why doesn't he look tired" when he runs 400 meters - simple - he is not tired. He is finished in 42 seconds. It takes 45 seconds to build up much lactic acid. He does not need guts, because he is already done when it gets hard.
That is not to say that kids of average ability cannot have great success by working hard - they can. I have personally coached kids who ran 23-26 min. for 5K as freshmen go on to be individual state qualifiers in CC..... a great accomplishment in my opinion. I have also coached individuals that were state champions and among the best individuals in the state - not one of them was of average ability. All of them combined rare talent with a good work ethic and a killer instinct when it came time to compete.
Again - not trying to slight hard work - hard work can lead to some great successes. But there are extraordinarily few "average" kids who win state titles by working hard and having guts. Guts do not do you a whole lot of good when you are building up lactic acid because you cannot deliver enough oxygen to your muscles and the kid you are racing is not in the redzone yet.....
Not to equate HS running with the olympics, but, I always like the example of someone like Michael Johnson - everyone always talks about how "relaxed" he looks, or "why doesn't he look tired" when he runs 400 meters - simple - he is not tired. He is finished in 42 seconds. It takes 45 seconds to build up much lactic acid. He does not need guts, because he is already done when it gets hard.
Here's an online training log for the 4A state champion (a sophomore) from Pleasant Valley. She ran 40 miles the week after state and 43 miles the week after that. Not backing off at all. And, she just ran a 5-mile Turkey Trot today in 5:53 pace. I'm equally impressed by the number of hours she is sleeping and the amount of quality runs (10+ miler at 6:45 pace).
http://www.dailymile.com/people/McKenzieMaeY
Remember, this is a high school girl and sophomore who is just coming off the state meet, yet she is averaging 40+ miles a week. I know she is far from alone in the type of training she does.
Thanks for this information! Is 40 miles per week common for a girl or is it as I believe where this is just something the elite few do? I'm asking roughly how many girls in the state you'd estimate are doing this kind of workout throughout the off season. Top 20? Top 100? 5-6 miles per day with a 1 day off per week. It'd be interesting to see one of the top boys as well, specifically lower classes. I still find it hard to believe they'd be running 60-70 miles per week consistently, but it's certainly possible.
30-40-50 miles per week is not something that most kids do - but it is certainly not uncommon. I would say that over the past 10 years, we have had 1-5 kids (boys/girls combined)per year running that in the off season. That is at a 1A school. I know our kids are not the only ones doing it. I seem to remember reading an article about Kevin Lewis a couple years ago - I want to say he was pushing up in the 70-100 per week range. There are others as well that are running 50-80 per week. Again - I would say that 70%+ of the kids that participate in CC do not basically run a step outside CC and Track - or if they do, it is very limited and does little. Another 10-20% do some running on a somewhat regular basis - but nothing major. Maybe 10% are putting in some pretty solid miles 30-40 or more.
40 miles per week in-season is bread and butter for at least five 4A girls teams in the state during their fall training. This would be their top 5-10 athletes per program. That's about 35 athletes right there. There are likely more than 100 girls hitting 35+ mpw throughout the state.
Sara Dickinson of Oskaloosa: This quote is from back in 2008! “She worked really hard this summer, running 500 miles. She also has run a second workout each day after our normal practice. She has put in a lot of miles and hard work, and it has abviously paid off for her.” http://www.oskaloosa.com/sports/x681409983/Cross-country-runners-ready-for-state-meet/print
Here's a non-4A boy that got 6th in the 2011 state meet - 3A Waverly-Shell Rock's Daniel Huff:
"Huff elevated his summer mileage to 50-60 per week with daily eight-to-nine mile training sessions. He's stepped it up to 70 miles a week this fall."
http://wcfcourier.com/sports/high-school/prep_of_the_week/prep-of-the-week-huff-takes-a-run-at-success/article_8d97eff2-e968-11e0-a54e-001cc4c002e0.html
I'm sure 2A's Michael Melchert and his entire team of Monticello boys are well above 50 mpw almost year-round.
I qualified for state individually in the 90s on 25mpw. Those days are long gone. I only wish I knew then what I know now.
This post was edited on 11/30 11:03 AM by B-K_Teach
This post was edited on 11/30 11:04 AM by B-K_Teach
In-Season there are TONS of kids running 35-50+ I would think. Our girls and boys top 7-10 on each team are easily running 35-50 during the season.
If you figure even 1 boy and 1 girl in 50% of the schools runs good miles (35-50 per week) in the off season - you are looking at 150 boys and 150 girls. I would think that would be stunningly conservative and there are many more than that, and some running well over 50 per week on a very regular basis.
If you figure even 1 boy and 1 girl in 50% of the schools runs good miles (35-50 per week) in the off season - you are looking at 150 boys and 150 girls. I would think that would be stunningly conservative and there are many more than that, and some running well over 50 per week on a very regular basis.
My son was averaging 200 miles per month starting around April and didn't make state (though he was close) in cc. As you said earlier, it's not just the miles. You watch him run, then you watch a Pollard, Greder or one the the Smiths from NP (who are all in his conference) and it's obvious there's a difference there, and it's not the miles. He'll likely make state next year, but there will still be a big difference between him and the Pollards of the world.
Here is the update on NFV track. They scored a grand total of 3 pts. They came from Danny Halva for 6th in the 3200. He was the young man that led to the lengthy debate over running a lot equating to a state title. 6th is nice, he cut 40 seconds from the year before when he placed 19th. That's a good jump and a sign of more to come. Yet, I have to wonder if he is such a talent, then why did he only qualify for state in one individual event.
It doesn't take 30-miles a week to win in class 1A on a "normal" year. Don't get me wrong, it may certainly help but i've heard the 1A 3200-1600-800 4x800 champs ran less than 10-15 miles a week. Not sure how they did it, I feel this isn't the case for 2A,3A etc.
I wouldn't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. 10-15 seems pretty low for the kind of times they do run. Yes, 1A times are typically slower than the other classes. And yes, the bar might be set lower in both the athlete and coaches minds but there are probably other factors that come into play when considering the day in the life of a 1A athlete. Multiple sports for sure, local competition probably isn't as rigorous, probably not even living in a town which makes off-season training real exciting even if they choose to run at those times, probably has a lot more responsibility at home on the farm than most kids their age across Iowa, probably not looking at running as a big part of their future beyond their high school experience. This really isn't any different than most other states' small school performances.
It seems to me, generally speaking, the larger the population, the more pigeon holed the kids become in their lifestyle, activities and social groups. I would think that in a 1A school situation, there are still seasons for everything rather than spending a great deal of the calendar year focusing on only a couple areas of interest. I can't help but think of the fishing, hunting, snowmobiling, motorcycle riding, farming/chores, getting livestock ready for the state fair etc... etc.... that all require some time out of the day in addition to school work, clubs, sports, plays etc... and prepping for their academic future. It takes a special person in a school of any size to be involved in a lot of activities and be any good at any of them.
It seems to me, generally speaking, the larger the population, the more pigeon holed the kids become in their lifestyle, activities and social groups. I would think that in a 1A school situation, there are still seasons for everything rather than spending a great deal of the calendar year focusing on only a couple areas of interest. I can't help but think of the fishing, hunting, snowmobiling, motorcycle riding, farming/chores, getting livestock ready for the state fair etc... etc.... that all require some time out of the day in addition to school work, clubs, sports, plays etc... and prepping for their academic future. It takes a special person in a school of any size to be involved in a lot of activities and be any good at any of them.
