New Valley kid
- Thread starter zmac328
- Start date
Is Valley a public school? Can't be, this kid is going to Dowling, private school in a large metro area, public schools never recruit. Must be "ciircumstances"
While you think you are being clever, your tired act is getting old and as usual, pretty childish.
The point of contention regarding private schools has ALWAYS been basically about 2 things.
1. Inventory of student athletes to draw from for private schools located in 3A and 4A sized communities and metro areas vs 2A and lower level programs that mostly don't have that advantage of #'s to draw from. Those smaller public schools, generally in rural areas are usually, for the most part, stuck with the kids they have and the population demographic they have.
2. The MUCH higher % of students in the pvt school population base that are able to contribute positively due to various socio-economic factors that typically go along with a private school type family/student athlete.
There are simply not near as many "zero"s or dead weight in the private school system. Add in the HUGE surge in the last decade or so of hyper agressive sports parents, more commonly seen among more affluent families and you can see why many private schools are having success at such a high rate.
Is that a bad thing? Not really, but there certainly IS a difference.
Now, with the bedroom communities that ARE near metro areas, like Solon, for example, they usually end up eventually moving up to the next class and thus the "problem" takes care of itself.
There really is only one private school in the state that doesn't fit into #1 and that's Western Christian and they are a big aberration in that they have a large # of small towns surrounding them instead of 1 large population base.
And, there are only a handful of communities with public schools that have consistently over performed such has Harlan and Emmetsburg. (Who have been used many times by the pvt school advocates as examples) Usually, you can point to something going on within that program or community that has driven their success and obviously, those programs, while convenient to use to refute the point, are aberrations or outliers. (By the way, Harlan is 3A so they don't count)
Sure, some mistakenly attribute the issue to "recruiting". However, most people that have thought this through, realize that private schools recruit. Duh, they HAVE to recruit. That's their life blood. If they don't recruit, they don't have a school. That isn't the "problem". It's demographics and population centers.
and yes, lots of public school programs DO recruit as well. Some more actively than others. It's the name of the game and the way the rules work. But, most of those recruiting instances we hear of are in larger schools which in turn, are in large communities and population areas. We just don't see it in the 2A and below levels very often.
The point of contention regarding private schools has ALWAYS been basically about 2 things.
1. Inventory of student athletes to draw from for private schools located in 3A and 4A sized communities and metro areas vs 2A and lower level programs that mostly don't have that advantage of #'s to draw from. Those smaller public schools, generally in rural areas are usually, for the most part, stuck with the kids they have and the population demographic they have.
2. The MUCH higher % of students in the pvt school population base that are able to contribute positively due to various socio-economic factors that typically go along with a private school type family/student athlete.
There are simply not near as many "zero"s or dead weight in the private school system. Add in the HUGE surge in the last decade or so of hyper agressive sports parents, more commonly seen among more affluent families and you can see why many private schools are having success at such a high rate.
Is that a bad thing? Not really, but there certainly IS a difference.
Now, with the bedroom communities that ARE near metro areas, like Solon, for example, they usually end up eventually moving up to the next class and thus the "problem" takes care of itself.
There really is only one private school in the state that doesn't fit into #1 and that's Western Christian and they are a big aberration in that they have a large # of small towns surrounding them instead of 1 large population base.
And, there are only a handful of communities with public schools that have consistently over performed such has Harlan and Emmetsburg. (Who have been used many times by the pvt school advocates as examples) Usually, you can point to something going on within that program or community that has driven their success and obviously, those programs, while convenient to use to refute the point, are aberrations or outliers. (By the way, Harlan is 3A so they don't count)
Sure, some mistakenly attribute the issue to "recruiting". However, most people that have thought this through, realize that private schools recruit. Duh, they HAVE to recruit. That's their life blood. If they don't recruit, they don't have a school. That isn't the "problem". It's demographics and population centers.
and yes, lots of public school programs DO recruit as well. Some more actively than others. It's the name of the game and the way the rules work. But, most of those recruiting instances we hear of are in larger schools which in turn, are in large communities and population areas. We just don't see it in the 2A and below levels very often.
You put an awful lot of effort into responding to an unclever, childish post. If the majority of the posters responded the way you did and used the same logic you did there would be no need for me to respond because the majority of what you posted is what I say when the uneducated majority go on about "recruiting". As far as recruiting not going on at smaller schools well that just isn't true. It is just done with less scrutiny. And if you are tired of my respones I advise you to stay off the football boards this fall because the attack dogs will be out, the small school I follow will have a line averaging around 250 so the shots will be flying.
I hope he ends up at Roosevelt.
lol
I'm pretty certain he's at Valley already. No need for suburban schools to compete for his services.
Saw he had an offer from San Diego State but was getting looks from some BCS schools like Iowa, ISU, Colorado, and a few others. Certainly makes District 1 a bit more interesting.
lol
I'm pretty certain he's at Valley already. No need for suburban schools to compete for his services.
Saw he had an offer from San Diego State but was getting looks from some BCS schools like Iowa, ISU, Colorado, and a few others. Certainly makes District 1 a bit more interesting.
It is just amazing how much transferring schools there is, especially in larger cities. In the large cities with multiple high schools, dozens upon dozens of kids switch schools each year, and most of them can't dribble, pass or catch. We don't hear about them. We just hear about the athlete who transfers. And in most cases we only hear about the star athlete who transfers. I would guess that there are more transfers from private schools to public schools than the other way around, as far as the average kid is concerned. That makes sense since the public schools are more affordable, have a curriculum that fits more kids, and have a bigger base for social interaction.
CID, over the yrs, I have repeatedly made the exact same argument I made above and you used to argue with me, in the past year or so, you have basically ignored it while mocking the subject as u did in your OP.
It does appear you have finally acknowledged the points I have always made. That's good to see.
Going forward, instead of antagonizing, as you did in your original post and nearly every time the issue of transfers come up, you should simply copy and paste my post above or type something similar.
I will be watching for it.
And, as I mentioned, transfers and recruiting do happen at smaller schools, just no where near as often where it is a big time player. Again, mostly due to the more rural aspect.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
It does appear you have finally acknowledged the points I have always made. That's good to see.
Going forward, instead of antagonizing, as you did in your original post and nearly every time the issue of transfers come up, you should simply copy and paste my post above or type something similar.
I will be watching for it.
And, as I mentioned, transfers and recruiting do happen at smaller schools, just no where near as often where it is a big time player. Again, mostly due to the more rural aspect.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
I think you need to go back in the archives because you are presenting some revisionist history. I have agreed with the majority of your points above. My posts typically focus on pointing out the disadvantages that private schools face. If you can show where I said your points were untrue I would be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if what you find is me presenting the other side of the situation. That is not arguing against your points rather it is addressing both sides of the equation. My guess is I choose to ignore your posts because they typically look at the situation from one side only. My last guess is that if you dig into the archives that several aspects of your original post are almost verbatim of some of my posts on this subject long before others(including you) began to acknowledge more aspects of the situation. As far as attempting to antagonize people on the subject well as long as people will continue to charge recruiting, metro area is the reason for success, high paid coaches then I will continue to antagonize. It is quite easy to do when the facts are easily produced and back up your original premise.
+1 to ICU. I think you've hit the nail on the head and I think you missed one factor, but sort of hit on it with Emmetsburg and Harlan and that's coaching. If you look at the most dominant programs there is a coach who is highly regarded and a staff that has been there for a while. With football, you need a solid coaching staff and Regina certainly has that right now; I think they have about 25 coaches on staff 
How many coaches on Regina's staff are teachers? Do coaches at Regina get free, or discounted, tuition for their kids? Also, as ICU pointed out, there aren't as many "zeros" in private schools which means that your kids are probably more engaged and have better attitudes. I understand that is a generalization and all schools have their share of bad apples, but I think it would be perceived by most that there would be fewer at a private school than a school with low SES. I think those factors would make a private school coaching job a little more enticing for coaches coming in.
Also, to add to ICU's point on parents. I think within the last 10 years there has been an explosion of year-round development of athletes and this extremely benefits kids from wealthy homes near metro areas. Kids have been increasingly attending speed/strength clinics, sports camps, and individual lessons from "gurus". Kids are increasingly ingesting supplements to increase muscle mass. All of this cost a lot of money and there are only a certain part of the population who is able to afford this. Every school has kids who can afford these and use these resources, but the more affluent ones are able to get more kids into them.
These factors aren't everything, but I think they add up to a more consistent program (more consistent than any other small school). Will Regina continue to win every state title? Doubt it. Will they ever have a losing record in the near future? Doubt it.
How many coaches on Regina's staff are teachers? Do coaches at Regina get free, or discounted, tuition for their kids? Also, as ICU pointed out, there aren't as many "zeros" in private schools which means that your kids are probably more engaged and have better attitudes. I understand that is a generalization and all schools have their share of bad apples, but I think it would be perceived by most that there would be fewer at a private school than a school with low SES. I think those factors would make a private school coaching job a little more enticing for coaches coming in.Also, to add to ICU's point on parents. I think within the last 10 years there has been an explosion of year-round development of athletes and this extremely benefits kids from wealthy homes near metro areas. Kids have been increasingly attending speed/strength clinics, sports camps, and individual lessons from "gurus". Kids are increasingly ingesting supplements to increase muscle mass. All of this cost a lot of money and there are only a certain part of the population who is able to afford this. Every school has kids who can afford these and use these resources, but the more affluent ones are able to get more kids into them.
These factors aren't everything, but I think they add up to a more consistent program (more consistent than any other small school). Will Regina continue to win every state title? Doubt it. Will they ever have a losing record in the near future? Doubt it.
+1 to both of you. All very valid points. I would ask if you want to discuss the disadvantages and the challenges that the private schools face but I have a good idea how that goes and I was told it's childish and tired. Please disregard any challenges they face it makes them easier to root against and take shots at.
Not trying to beat you up here, but.........I don't see where you addressed the pvt school challenges and someone said your response was childish. Didn't happen that way.
I will just say that I'll take a private school with poor facilities and "low paid coaches" competing in 2A and 1A football located in a town large enough for multiple 4A sized schools and that is a majpr D1 football town playing for a former HOF/NFL/All American athlete with access to multiple former D1 football players looking to get into coaching any day.
Again, you have evolved with your thinking and I credit you for coming around. That has been obvious to watch over the last year or 2 as your words have changed. I pay close attention and noticed that you had started posting tidbits here and there that align with my argument (which has been the same for many years). Kudos to you for seeing the same thing many of us see and being man enough to post it.
I'll continue to point out the incorrect "recruiting" argument many people make and I will hope that you proceed with patience with those uninformed individuals.
G' day.
icu-I don't have a clue or did I do my homework but why does other States address this issue and Iowa looks the other way so to speak.I really don't even know how many states have change the private schools playing up rule but I know its out there.Thanks
Thank you for acknowledging the evolution in my thinking. I am fairly certain my approach has been pretty consistent since I have joined this board. I have acknowledged the advantages that a school like Regina has while pointing out their significant challenges as well, I will point out the differences in how people think a multiplier work and how it actually works, I will provide facts to back up what I have to say and I suffer fools poorly. I enjoy a good debate and I enjoy trying to spark activity on this board because it needs more people posting. This board is a great resource and we need to keep it active. That being said I am the leading expert on what I write and it have evolved in how I write it but my core beliefs and thought processes have not changed since I started.
Here is a dilemma which can be used on both sides of the situation. The incoming freshman at Regina are losing 16 kids from their class including kids who were being projected to be contributes to the football program. Does this demonstrate their desire to keep their numbers down? Eliminate zeros? Challenges a school like Regina faces? Why would kids projected to contribute leave a program like that? It's not all sunshine and roses because of location, coaches, football etc. to go from 62 kids to 46 will support those who say that's how they stay 1A and it's unfair it also supports those who can point out the kids who got away.
In closing on this subject I have been unwavering from the start and will continue to be until proof(facts) are provided to cause me to change. In other subjects I will take the side against the emotional, uninformed poster every time. We will agree to disagree and it will always be about the discussion and not personal.
Here is a dilemma which can be used on both sides of the situation. The incoming freshman at Regina are losing 16 kids from their class including kids who were being projected to be contributes to the football program. Does this demonstrate their desire to keep their numbers down? Eliminate zeros? Challenges a school like Regina faces? Why would kids projected to contribute leave a program like that? It's not all sunshine and roses because of location, coaches, football etc. to go from 62 kids to 46 will support those who say that's how they stay 1A and it's unfair it also supports those who can point out the kids who got away.
In closing on this subject I have been unwavering from the start and will continue to be until proof(facts) are provided to cause me to change. In other subjects I will take the side against the emotional, uninformed poster every time. We will agree to disagree and it will always be about the discussion and not personal.
Maybe someone couldn't afford to keep paying extra for something they were already paying for.
If you want to spend the money to send your kid to a private school as long as you have the money more power to you but sometimes people don't use their common sense. Heard on a talk show a week ago a woman who owed $230K in student debt for a graduate degree in a field which payed little. She called because she wanted her kids to go to private school ($26,000 per year) but was unhappy because her application for financial aid wouldn't consider her student debt and more aid was the only way she could afford it (in other words she could only afford it if someone else paid for it). The moderator told her to enroll the kid in the school her taxes were already paying for and get a better job to start paying off on her student debt (which he reminder her was her obligation to pay).
If you want to spend the money to send your kid to a private school as long as you have the money more power to you but sometimes people don't use their common sense. Heard on a talk show a week ago a woman who owed $230K in student debt for a graduate degree in a field which payed little. She called because she wanted her kids to go to private school ($26,000 per year) but was unhappy because her application for financial aid wouldn't consider her student debt and more aid was the only way she could afford it (in other words she could only afford it if someone else paid for it). The moderator told her to enroll the kid in the school her taxes were already paying for and get a better job to start paying off on her student debt (which he reminder her was her obligation to pay).
I am not 100% sure what the answer is to this. There are some states that have made changes but they seem to be much larger population wise.
One answer regarding Iowa might simply be they wouldn't know exactly what would be a fair and equitable way to handle it. Lot's of differing opinions I would guess
The other is that there probably just isn't enough "outrage" shown from other schools/coaches. In a small state like this, there probably just aren't enough coaches that are willing to come out and be vocal about the issue.
Should stay in 1A, as far as other states addressing the issue there are some that have separate classes some with a multiplier about 10-12 states. In the studies I looked at the multiplier had little to no impact on private school championships won. On another note if privates got their own class they wouldn't fall under the boy$ in Boone$ umbrella $o that won't happen. As far as the original post, where did this guy come from?
Anthony Holmes.
6'6, 200 pound receiver.
Transferring in from Aurora, Colorado.
Has scholarship offers from San Diego State and Wyoming.
Receiving interest from Colorado, Iowa State, Iowa, and Illinois.
Plays hoops as well.
Sounds like a lesser version of Lazard but still a huge plus on offense from Valley.
6'6, 200 pound receiver.
Transferring in from Aurora, Colorado.
Has scholarship offers from San Diego State and Wyoming.
Receiving interest from Colorado, Iowa State, Iowa, and Illinois.
Plays hoops as well.
Sounds like a lesser version of Lazard but still a huge plus on offense from Valley.
His parent/legal guardian was hired for a teaching position at Stilwell (one of the junior highs in WDM).
Very good points indeed, I don't have issues with transfers in general and my first post was full on sarcastic because if you read some of the posters here the kid would have no option but to go to Dowling.
On a side note Justice is that the "new" Bearcat paw? If it's the old one the license police will be on you.
On a side note Justice is that the "new" Bearcat paw? If it's the old one the license police will be on you.
There must be advantages to private schools. Otherwise, parents wouldn't pay $5,000-10,000 to send their kid there. However, that in and of itself is a disadvantage. There are no discounts (that I am aware of) for throwing a football. Light bills still need to be paid even though championships are won. Public schools hav ethe advantage of open enrollment so they can recruit kids... FOR FREE.
Sure, there are people in the community that help under-privileged kids afford to go to a private school. Have I ever seen a star athlete get a full-ride to private school because he can throw a football? No. In no way is scholarship monies tied to athletic ability. At least not any Iowa private schools that I am aware of.
And your thoughts about public schools being able to recruit for "free"? (relatively speaking, of course)
This post was edited on 7/2 10:00 PM by icu81222Originally posted by ST8TAILG8R:
Sure, there are people in the community that help under-privileged kids afford to go to a private school. Have I ever seen a star athlete get a full-ride to private school because he can throw a football? No. In no way is scholarship monies tied to athletic ability. At least not any Iowa private schools that I am aware of.
And your thoughts about public schools being able to recruit for "free"? (relatively speaking, of course)
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
-
Edit : Vols win SEC in baseball on last day of season take #1 seed
- Latest: Pops Masterson