MAC versus MVC comps

[BKDevil]

Until this year, MVC fans continually ragged on MAC fans touting the MAC is weak and the MVC would kill all the teams from the MAC.
Well, this year basically proved that the football in these two conferences are pretty darn equal.
The overall record to date, with Bett and CR Wash still to play, in head to head games finished at 19 wins for the MVC and 17 wins for the MAC. Pretty even.

Then when you factor in the fact that the three Davenport Public schools went 0-9 versus MVC competition it shows the conferences mid tier teams are all pretty darn equal. No huge drop off from schools like NS-PV or Muscatine who all finished with a winning record against the MVC.

Thank goodness we don't have to hear these fans blow smoke anymore.

 

[iceland]

I think you will probably hear that until the day when someone else other than Bettendorf actually goes somewhere in the playoffs. Only twice in the last eighteen seasons has a different MAC team made it to the semis. PV and North Scott have had a lot of good teams over the years but just can't seem to beat Bett or good MVC teams when it matters. Assumption wasn't even that good in 3A this year. In the MVC Xavier, Cedar Falls, City High, Washington and IC West have all made it to the semis in the dome at least twice in that time period I mentioned. Each has also made it to the title game.

 

[BKDevil]

Really?
Head to head is disregarded?
PV going 5-1 against MVC teams, NS going 3-1 and Muscatine going 3-2 should provide enough evidence that the two old conferences are not drastically different.
Bettendorf is one of the best one or two programs in the state. Losing to them in the playoffs should be no metric to label an entire conference as bad or weak.
Plus Bett has also dominated the MVC in the playoffs in year's past as well as evident by their 18 Dome appearances. Your logic is flawed as Bett not only beat good MAC teams they also beat good MVC teams in their playoff runs.

Not saying the MAC is better, just saying the difference is minimal.

 

[screwloose]

Personally, I think the Missouri Valley Conference is better than the Mid-American Conference. The Sagarin Rating points to this being true. Look at the numbers. Just because the Mac is part of FBS and the MVC is in FCS...wait a second...errr, wrong discussion.

 

[setts1984]

I think the MVC is better... not by leaps and bounds, but better...

and you can't just look at the record, IMO... who did they play and beat? If they are beating teams towards the bottom of the MVC... then I don't know that it says much.

 

[Dragon7678]

I think this year shows parity for this year, this will be an interesting discussion in years to come. It certainly shows their is a top tier, middle tier and bottom tier in each conference. It's really no different than the CIML, when you factor in the SES into the equation you see the instant separation of quality. Would certainly like to see a few more cross over games between the traditional western half and the eastern half in no district games though.

 

[BKDevil]

The MACs four worst versus MVC
Dav West 0-3 (Jeff-Hemp & Senior)
Dav North 0-3 (Jeff, Hemp, IC WEST)
Clinton 0-2 (Linn Mar & Senior)
Burlington 0-3 (Prairie, IC High, Wash)

The MVC four worst versus MAC
Wat West no games
IC High 1-2 (L to Bett & Musc; W over Burlington)
CR Kenn 1-3 (L to PV, NS & Bett; W over Muscatine)
Wat West no games

Obviously, the MAC's four worst fared much worse versus MVC teams (0-11) then the worst four MVC against the MAC (2-5).
So the logic of only playing and beating up on the lower tiered teams actually favors the MAC's argument this year.

 

[setts1984]

Originally posted by BKDevil:

The MACs four worst versus MVC
Dav West 0-3 (Jeff-Hemp & Senior)
Dav North 0-3 (Jeff, Hemp, IC WEST)
Clinton 0-2 (Linn Mar & Senior)
Burlington 0-3 (Prairie, IC High, Wash)

The MVC four worst versus MAC
Wat West no games
IC High 1-2 (L to Bett & Musc; W over Burlington)
CR Kenn 1-3 (L to PV, NS & Bett; W over Muscatine)
Wat West no games

Obviously, the MAC's four worst fared much worse versus MVC teams (0-11) then the worst four MVC against the MAC (2-5).
So the logic of only playing and beating up on the lower tiered teams actually favors the MAC's argument this year.

uh, how so?

If the MVC's "4 worst" have a better record against the MAC than the MAC's four worst does, then to me, that makes a stronger case for the MVC. The MVC could say our "4 worst" are at least competitive against you... you're "4 worst" aren't even competitive against us.

If your bottom teams can beat another conference's teams, IMO, that shows a stronger conference. Because the cream of the crop, no matter what conference, most likely is always going to beat up on the weaker teams

This post was edited on 11/12 1:25 PM by setts1984

 

[BKDevil]

Well, you completely missed my point.
Two of the MVC teams did not play ANY of the MAC teams therefore, they did not garner losses, which we both know would have happened.
You said the numbers are skewed by top teams beating up on lower teams. That only happened with the lower tiered MAC teams. The lower tiered MVC teams were pardoned by the state.

 

[tnobd]

If you are using former MVC and MAC matchups as a comparison, don't your have to consider the potential games the lone crossover team in Ottumwa eliminated? They played 2-former MAC teams and 3 former MVC teams. Give it a few years after districts change and non-districts match ups change before it is determined that the two football conferences (that do not exist anymore) are better or worse.

 

[setts1984]

Originally posted by BKDevil:

Well, you completely missed my point.
Two of the MVC teams did not play ANY of the MAC teams therefore, they did not garner losses, which we both know would have happened.
You said the numbers are skewed by top teams beating up on lower teams. That only happened with the lower tiered MAC teams. The lower tiered MVC teams were pardoned by the state.

uh, no? I don't "know" that it would have happened if they played "any" of the MAC teams. If it was Bettendorf? Sure... but if they had played a Davenport school or a middling MAC team? no, don't know.



This post was edited on 11/12 3:35 PM by setts1984

 

[BKDevil]

Don't like losing an argument do you?
I respond to your challenge that the numbers are swayed by top teams playing lower tier teams and point out that more lower tier MAC teams played mid to high MVC teams and you cannot accept that?
Your highlighted areas are out of context to help make your point.
You're right....Waterloo East probably would have beaten PV, NS or Muscatine.
Have a great day!

 

[loco60]

Great post, BK! But aren't the MAC and MVC so last year? Did you mean to do a District breakdown?
Figures that the one year the former MAC teams can hold their head up a bit and they go and delete the conferences.

It's all about Districts now!

The Clinton-Xavier game of 2009 was a great offering from the past...great crowd.
The CRJ - Davenport Central game of way back was legendary at Kingston!

The Bettendorf - ICW non-district game was a thriller!

All the conference games are faded memories, just pick out the best ones.
All of the District and Non-District games...that's happening!

 

[BKDevil]

I really like the current district setup.
It creates new rivalries.

This post was to put the "MVC is head and shoulders above the MAC" argument to bed. I have been hearing it for years.
Every year is different, but the talent is pretty close to being equal in each region.
Now if we can put the catholic schools recruit BS to bed too...

 

[maxstabs13]

BCMoore tends to be a pretty reliable source... I personally think the MVC is significantly better than the MAC. CR Kennedy was 2-7 and beat the 4th best MAC team... IC West was a mid-tier MVC team and took Bett to OT... NS was the only team to even challenge Bett from the MAC and they blew a huge lead and were controlled the next time they played. I say all of this before looking at the 2001-2010 composite rankings.

2001-2010 Rankings
#3 IC High
#5 Cedar Falls
#6 Bettendorf
#7 CR Washington
#8 CR Xavier
#10 Davenport Assumption
#11 CR Prairie
#12 CR Kennedy
#14 Dub Hempstead
#17 IC West
#19 North Scott
#20 Dub Wahlert
#21 Linn Mar
#26 Muscatine
#28 Pleasant Valley
#30 Waterloo West
#35 Clinton
#36 Burlington
#37 CR Jefferson
#39 Dav Central
#40 Dub Senior
#43 Waterloo East
#44 Dav West
#45 Dav North

Not sure I really need to go to point totals, but lower average score wins...
MVC 17.86
MAC 35.33

MVC had a record of 20-17 versus the MAC this year.
CR Washington 3-0
Linn Mar 3-0
CR Xavier 1-0
CR Jefferson 2-1
Dub Hempstead 3-3
IC West 2-2
CR Prairie 2-2
Dub Senior 2-3
IC High 1-2
CR Kennedy 1-3(Played Top 4 teams beat 4th best Muscatine)
Wahlert 0-1(Only team to not get at least 1 win versus MAC)

Bettendorf went 5-0
PV went 5-1
North Scott 3-1
Muscatine 3-2
Assumption 1-1
Everyone Else 0-15

 

[thrawn_42]

I just had to check my 2 state title rings and other awards to make sure there was not a asterisk on them for playing in the MAC, there wasn't one, that's a relief.

 

[woodsiding]

Originally posted by thrawn_42:
I just had to check my 2 state title rings and other awards to make sure there was not a asterisk on them for playing in the MAC, there wasn't one, that's a relief.

You must have went to Bettendorf? No one denies how great a program that is. The cream of the crop in the east.

 

[thrawn_42]

I did, but even back in 88, there was this oh they play in the MAC, so they are really not that good, hell we were ranked 21st in the nation, but the Register had us Ranked #2 in the state, behind Newton. Reading some of the articles, you would have thought they were the 72 Dolphins and we were the Cleveland Browns. But I do think the game tonight with CR Washington will be a great game!!

 

[cidhawkeye]

You didn't happen to score 6 touchdowns in one of those games did you?