How do you feel if IAHSAA seeded the entire 4A playoff field, 1-32, regardless of location? No east/west and not worried about districts.
How do you feel if IAHSAA seeded the entire 4A field, 1-32, regardless of
- Thread starter LukeFeddersen
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If they seeded the field in any class, the playoff games would have to be moved to Friday/Saturday nights, instead of Monday/Wednesday. The games would have to be weekly, which would result in a longer playoff and a shorter regular season. It is rough enough on the players to have to go to school the next day when it was a home game, let alone an away game clear across the state; academics come first. If the playoffs were seeded and stayed on Monday/Wednesday nights, the IAHSAA would risk attendance at games... Lower attendance means less money.
It's not really that hard to do. The regular season can start when it does now and the playoff games can be played every Friday or Saturday depending on travel. The championship game would be played the day after Thanksgiving or two days after if they want it on a Saturday. This is how Illinois has done it for years and it works out well for all involved, although they don't seed it 1-32. In fact, it would work better in Iowa than it does in Illinois because Illinois teams play Thanksgiving basketball tournaments whereas Iowa teams don't.
Part of the issue with playing games after Thanksgiving is the availability of the UNI-Dome. No secret the state wants to have three or four championship games on Saturday. That Saturday after Thanksgiving is always subject to Northern Iowa having a First Round home game in the FCS Playoffs. And there's no way Northern Iowa is going to give up the chance at hosting a game for the state football playoffs...no chance at all.
As for seeding 1-32, it's a nice idea, but I don't think it's really feasible. Games currently being scheduled on Wednesdays and Mondays makes this a really bad idea. Not that it's good now anyway.
The only way this idea could loosely work would be to use something like the "tennis pot" system, which is something I've talked about on this site before. The way they seed tennis, if you know, works on a series of random drawings for each level of seeds. For those who don't know, I'll explain.
== The top two seeds are placed on opposite sides of the bracket. #1 on top, #2 on the bottom.
== Next, they draw for the next two seeds(#3 & #4). It's a 50-50 shot that the #3 could end up on the same side as #1. Some might say that is unfair, but if seeding holds true, a #1 or #2 seed should both beat a #3 and #4 in the same round, so it shouldn't matter, if you play to what your seeding is.
== Next, they draw seeds #5 through #8. Again, these could be matched with any of the top 4 seeds as quarterfinalists. So the #1 may be matched with the #5 and the #2 gets the #8...it's completely random.
== Next, they draw seeds #9 through #16. And these seeds are placed opposite the top 8 seeds as "Sweet Sixteen" or for the playoffs, second round teams. The #1 might get unlucky and have the #9 and the #2 gets lucky and draws the #16...again, completely random.
== The rest of the teams, unseeded, randomly get selected and placed into the bracket against whomever the position is being drawn for. There's no designation between #17 and #32, they're all unseeded. So luck of the draw plays a part. But once again, if a team plays to what their actual seeding is, that shouldn't matter.
That being said, if the IHSAA were to seed the playoffs, I'd guess they'd only seed the top 16. And rather than doing a draw, they use a more fluid geographic adaptation after each round to try and minimalize travel as much as possible. In a sense, they'd be reseeding after every round. This is the only way I could see a state-wide seeding scenario work.
If the seeding was strict and followed precisely to the seeds, what are the prospects anybody from Burlington(for example) would travel to Sioux City East on a Wednesday night for the First Round? Very small. And those kids would be getting home the next morning, just in time for school. And what if they won and their Second Round game was five days later at Council Bluffs Lincoln(for example)? It's not feasible. It couldn't work and would have people carrying pitchforks if it did.
As for seeding 1-32, it's a nice idea, but I don't think it's really feasible. Games currently being scheduled on Wednesdays and Mondays makes this a really bad idea. Not that it's good now anyway.
The only way this idea could loosely work would be to use something like the "tennis pot" system, which is something I've talked about on this site before. The way they seed tennis, if you know, works on a series of random drawings for each level of seeds. For those who don't know, I'll explain.
== The top two seeds are placed on opposite sides of the bracket. #1 on top, #2 on the bottom.
== Next, they draw for the next two seeds(#3 & #4). It's a 50-50 shot that the #3 could end up on the same side as #1. Some might say that is unfair, but if seeding holds true, a #1 or #2 seed should both beat a #3 and #4 in the same round, so it shouldn't matter, if you play to what your seeding is.
== Next, they draw seeds #5 through #8. Again, these could be matched with any of the top 4 seeds as quarterfinalists. So the #1 may be matched with the #5 and the #2 gets the #8...it's completely random.
== Next, they draw seeds #9 through #16. And these seeds are placed opposite the top 8 seeds as "Sweet Sixteen" or for the playoffs, second round teams. The #1 might get unlucky and have the #9 and the #2 gets lucky and draws the #16...again, completely random.
== The rest of the teams, unseeded, randomly get selected and placed into the bracket against whomever the position is being drawn for. There's no designation between #17 and #32, they're all unseeded. So luck of the draw plays a part. But once again, if a team plays to what their actual seeding is, that shouldn't matter.
That being said, if the IHSAA were to seed the playoffs, I'd guess they'd only seed the top 16. And rather than doing a draw, they use a more fluid geographic adaptation after each round to try and minimalize travel as much as possible. In a sense, they'd be reseeding after every round. This is the only way I could see a state-wide seeding scenario work.
If the seeding was strict and followed precisely to the seeds, what are the prospects anybody from Burlington(for example) would travel to Sioux City East on a Wednesday night for the First Round? Very small. And those kids would be getting home the next morning, just in time for school. And what if they won and their Second Round game was five days later at Council Bluffs Lincoln(for example)? It's not feasible. It couldn't work and would have people carrying pitchforks if it did.
Is this really needed? Is there enough overlap on the regular season schedules between the east and central/west sides of the state to do a reasonable comparison?
Between the different tiers of teams, why try to get exact?
Teams 1-5 - these teams stand out (sometimes 1 or 2 are better than the rest)
Teams 6-10 - elite teams, but not much difference.
Teams 10-20 - all good, but all very much the same talent on the teams.
Teams 20-32 - sure the #20 team is going to be much better than the #32 team, but why make that #20 team drive 4 hrs just to get smashed in the first round playoff game when they could get smashed by a team only an hr away?
When it comes down to it.....won't the top tier teams still make it to the final four in the dome regardless of the playoff system?
Between the different tiers of teams, why try to get exact?
Teams 1-5 - these teams stand out (sometimes 1 or 2 are better than the rest)
Teams 6-10 - elite teams, but not much difference.
Teams 10-20 - all good, but all very much the same talent on the teams.
Teams 20-32 - sure the #20 team is going to be much better than the #32 team, but why make that #20 team drive 4 hrs just to get smashed in the first round playoff game when they could get smashed by a team only an hr away?
When it comes down to it.....won't the top tier teams still make it to the final four in the dome regardless of the playoff system?
Not always. Dowling and Waukee were the two best teams by the end of the year last year, but they had to play in the quarterfinals and Dowling escaped and went on to steamroll Valley and Xavier (who easily handled Bettendorf).
Just start the season a week earlier, when Week 0 typically is. The whole reason they said they can't do that is because it makes it tough to get everyone 9 games, but that's complete bull, IMO. They somehow managed to get everyone scheduled without using Week 0, so it's obviously doable. Then just play every round of the playoffs on Friday nights.
Forget seeding everyone. I don't see how they can reasonably hope to do that, anyway.
Waukee was NOT the second best team last year. They may have been third, but they would not have been able to stop Tyus Mason like Dowling was able to in the dome. Dowling had one of the best D-Lines the state has seen last year and they did a nice job of stopping him, but Valley was in position in that game for all of about 5 minutes. Dowling didn't "escape" Waukee either. They BEAT them. Wauke was a good football team and are again this year. Heck they might be the 2nd best team in the west this year, but I think Valley will have something to say about that in the playoffs. With that being said, the playoff system isn't changing anytime soon. It is good for the state. If you had an all east or all west final, people from the opposite side of the state would care less to go. Many people go to watch "their side" of the state in the finals and cheer them on for bragging rights.
tm33_08 - you actually played right into my point.
You suggest Waukee was the 2nd best team in the state based on what? Their close playoff loss to Dowling? Based on the regular season, there's no way you could without question put them ahead of any of these teams below. Sure they probably were ahead of some, but can you really make a case to put Waukee in front of all of them?
WDM Valley - 7-2, but beat Waukee
Ames - 9-0
Urbandale - 7-2
Pleasant Valley - 9-0
Davenport Assumption - 8-1
Iowa City West - 8-1
Bettendorf - 7-2
Iowa City High - 7-2
My argument stands true, put the top tier teams in the top tier seeds and the bottom in the bottom. This will make sure two top tier teams don't face in the first round. After that, the best teams will eventually come out in the playoffs (ex - no crap team has ever won a state title).
Regardless of how good your team is, it means very little if you can't beat another good team in the playoffs (regardless of the round). Seeding won't help that.
This post was edited on 9/26 1:47 PM by mtdew_fever
You suggest Waukee was the 2nd best team in the state based on what? Their close playoff loss to Dowling? Based on the regular season, there's no way you could without question put them ahead of any of these teams below. Sure they probably were ahead of some, but can you really make a case to put Waukee in front of all of them?
WDM Valley - 7-2, but beat Waukee
Ames - 9-0
Urbandale - 7-2
Pleasant Valley - 9-0
Davenport Assumption - 8-1
Iowa City West - 8-1
Bettendorf - 7-2
Iowa City High - 7-2
My argument stands true, put the top tier teams in the top tier seeds and the bottom in the bottom. This will make sure two top tier teams don't face in the first round. After that, the best teams will eventually come out in the playoffs (ex - no crap team has ever won a state title).
Regardless of how good your team is, it means very little if you can't beat another good team in the playoffs (regardless of the round). Seeding won't help that.
This post was edited on 9/26 1:47 PM by mtdew_fever
Football isn't the only sport that is played... If games were played after Thanksgiving, the winter sports would suffer. Wrestling/basketball season (competitions) begin the first week of December. With games after Thanksgiving, kids would be given 5-7 days to prepare for an entirely different sport that requires a much different physical fitness. (Cutting weight, etc.) Not to mention how draining it would be to have back to back seasons that run together like that. Even a few days off (which is all they get if they play in championship) goes a long ways in helping high school kids recuperate.
Bottom line is, it wouldn't work. Something would have to give... winter sports would suffer, or the health of 16-18 yr old KIDS would suffer. Pick your poison.
Bottom line is, it wouldn't work. Something would have to give... winter sports would suffer, or the health of 16-18 yr old KIDS would suffer. Pick your poison.
If you're truly worried about the health of the kids, then you wouldn't be advocating short recovery between games. Overlapping or delaying winter sports for a few teams each year is not going to impact the season of those schools. If you're concerned about the number of games that can be played in a winter season, then open up the holiday schedule for tournaments. There is no reason this issue can't be resolved and there is no advantage to the school or kids to keep it the way it is.
I wasn't advocating for short recovery times... just mentioning it would be all they get if they wanted to start the winter season with everyone else. And trust me, even a day off helps. Opening up the holiday break for games/tournaments becomes a touchy subject as kids go out of town for vacations/family time, etc. I completely agree that it would be ideal to have a seeded playoff system, I just don't see it happening. Its unfortunate that a quarterfinal/semi-final game may be played between the 2 best teams in the state, but the current system is what works best, IMO. Also, some schools may not be able to afford to send the team across the state, week after week. There's a lot of different factors that would need to be looked at... it will be interesting to see what happens in the future.
This post was edited on 9/27 2:48 PM by iowahawkfan123
This post was edited on 9/27 2:48 PM by iowahawkfan123
Stay on same side of state for first half of tournament.
Then cross-seed for the second half.
Don't change the playoff schedule
Don't start the season earlier.
Then cross-seed for the second half.
Don't change the playoff schedule
Don't start the season earlier.
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