Final Thoughts on the Process for ALL STATE SELECTIONS

[westside rules]

Looking at the list or coaches that attended or were invited to the voting meeting and the sports reporters who voted help answers our questions as to why and how. I will use two examples that jump off the page, one from 3A and the other from 4A.

Urbandale coach Sam Anderson attended the meeting. Urbandale was a team that did not make it to post season play and according to our independent expert (DSM Sports Fan) had 1 player on it's year end performers list (Milewsky).

Now lets use Sioux City and Council Bluffs for a comparison who have a total of 6 teams playing 4A with CBLC the only team making the playoffs.

Sioux City & Council Bluffs ( 6 HS) 3 players
Urbandale ( 1 high School) 4 players

So what the selectors are telling us is Urbandale (1 School) has 4 All State Players compared to #6 Sioux City and Council Bluffs High Schools have 3 players And Duggan and Theobald two premier players according to Quik Stats and DSM Sports Fan are not worthy yet Urbandale has 4 players deserving? BTW CBLC beat this team loaded with all state performers to capture a playoff spot.

How can a team like Urbandale with 4 ALL STATE PLAYERS not make it to post season?



Now lets look at 3A
I am not sure who or how reporters get invited but if you look some News Papers send multiple people to vote, an example would be Creston who show 2 attendees. How many players from Creston get selected to the ALL STATE TEAMS ( drum roll) #4. You would think a team with 4 all state players would get deep into post season.

So what's the point in all this? The system is a joke and the teams are not the best players but the players best represented at the voting ceremony

Before anyone asks, I'll admit that I am pissed at these selections and yes I am a west side guy and a Sioux City HS sports fan of both Heelan and East and just want fairness in the process.

Below is the list of reporters and coaches attending

1. 2016 INA ALL-STATE FOOTBALL TEAMS ANNOUNCED
   
   DES MOINES, IA – The Iowa Newspaper Association announced its 2016 All-State Football selections Tuesday, naming honorary captains in classes A, 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A and 8-Man.
   
   Sports writers serving on the INA selection committee which made the team selections were: Corey Meints, Ackley World Journal; Greg Grabianowski, Algona Upper Des Moines; Daryl Schepanski, Anamosa Journal-Eureka; K.J. Pilcher, Cedar Rapids Gazette; Kyle Ocker, Centerville Daily Iowegian; Kelly DeVore, Central City Linn News-Letter; Kaleb Carter, Creston News Advertiser; Ryan Kronberg, Creston News Advertiser; Matt Coss, Davenport Quad-City Times; Todd Danner, Denison Bulletin; Ross Eberhart, DeWitt Observer; Dan Voigt, Emmetsburg Publishing; Bruce Thein, Guttenberg Press; Kristi Nixon, Hampton Chronicle; Mike Oeffner, Harlan Newspapers; Bruce Odson, Hawarden Independent (via phone); Mike Helle, Knoxville Journal-Express; Stephen Koenigsfeld, Marshalltown Times-Republican; Adam Ring, Marshalltown Times-Republican; Ross Thede, Marshalltown Times-Republican; Blake Schultz, Mason City Globe Gazette; Jake Ryder, Mid-America Publishing; Matt Gengler, Missouri Valley Times-News; Pete Temple, Monticello Express; Troy Hyde, Newton Daily News; Lori Wiser, Ocheyedan Press-Melvin News; Jake Jenkins, Oskaloosa Herald; John Jensen, Parkersburg Eclipse-News-Review; Perry Bell, Pella Chronicle; Dale Wegner, Sac City Sun; Jeff Budlong, Sioux City Journal and Troy Banning, Webster City Daily Freeman-Journal.
   
   The following coaches and representatives of the Iowa Football Coaches Association assisted with statistical information: Jerry Staton, Albia; Rick Nelson, Ankeny; Andy Umthum, ELC; Aaron Shipley, Grinnell; Brian Webb, Cedar Rapids Jefferson; Duane Schulte; Cedar Rapids Xavier; Bill Shafer, Central Springs; P.J. Hedrington, Des Moines Roosevelt; Tom Wilson, Dowling Catholic; Chris Visser, Glenwood; Kreg Lensch, Glidden-Ralston; Gabe Tardive, LeMars; Mike Parkinson, Lynnville-Sully; David Kuhl, Maple Valley; Brian Wilken, Newell-Fonda; Steve Shantz, Nodaway Valley; Lyle Alumbaugh, Panorama; Aaron Stensland, Roland-Story; Aaron Allspach, Twin Cedars; Cameron Parker, Twin Cedars; Sam Anderson, Urbandale; Gary Swenson, Valley West Des Moines; Steve Milder, West Central; Cody Hackett, West Marshall and George Ashman, Woodward-Granger.
   
   

 

[HawkeyeDog]

Looking at the list or coaches that attended or were invited to the voting meeting and the sports reporters who voted help answers our questions as to why and how. I will use two examples that jump off the page, one from 3A and the other from 4A.

Urbandale coach Sam Anderson attended the meeting. Urbandale was a team that did not make it to post season play and according to our independent expert (DSM Sports Fan) had 1 player on it's year end performers list (Milewsky).

Now lets use Sioux City and Council Bluffs for a comparison who have a total of 6 teams playing 4A with CBLC the only team making the playoffs.

Sioux City & Council Bluffs ( 6 HS) 3 players
Urbandale ( 1 high School) 4 players

So what the selectors are telling us is Urbandale (1 School) has 4 All State Players compared to #6 Sioux City and Council Bluffs High Schools have 3 players And Duggan and Theobald two premier players according to Quik Stats and DSM Sports Fan are not worthy yet Urbandale has 4 players deserving? BTW CBLC beat this team loaded with all state performers to capture a playoff spot.

How can a team like Urbandale with 4 ALL STATE PLAYERS not make it to post season?



Now lets look at 3A
I am not sure who or how reporters get invited but if you look some News Papers send multiple people to vote, an example would be Creston who show 2 attendees. How many players from Creston get selected to the ALL STATE TEAMS ( drum roll) #4. You would think a team with 4 all state players would get deep into post season.

So what's the point in all this? The system is a joke and the teams are not the best players but the players best represented at the voting ceremony

Before anyone asks, I'll admit that I am pissed at these selections and yes I am a west side guy and a Sioux City HS sports fan of both Heelan and East and just want fairness in the process.

Below is the list of reporters and coaches attending

1. 2016 INA ALL-STATE FOOTBALL TEAMS ANNOUNCED
   
   DES MOINES, IA – The Iowa Newspaper Association announced its 2016 All-State Football selections Tuesday, naming honorary captains in classes A, 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A and 8-Man.
   
   Sports writers serving on the INA selection committee which made the team selections were: Corey Meints, Ackley World Journal; Greg Grabianowski, Algona Upper Des Moines; Daryl Schepanski, Anamosa Journal-Eureka; K.J. Pilcher, Cedar Rapids Gazette; Kyle Ocker, Centerville Daily Iowegian; Kelly DeVore, Central City Linn News-Letter; Kaleb Carter, Creston News Advertiser; Ryan Kronberg, Creston News Advertiser; Matt Coss, Davenport Quad-City Times; Todd Danner, Denison Bulletin; Ross Eberhart, DeWitt Observer; Dan Voigt, Emmetsburg Publishing; Bruce Thein, Guttenberg Press; Kristi Nixon, Hampton Chronicle; Mike Oeffner, Harlan Newspapers; Bruce Odson, Hawarden Independent (via phone); Mike Helle, Knoxville Journal-Express; Stephen Koenigsfeld, Marshalltown Times-Republican; Adam Ring, Marshalltown Times-Republican; Ross Thede, Marshalltown Times-Republican; Blake Schultz, Mason City Globe Gazette; Jake Ryder, Mid-America Publishing; Matt Gengler, Missouri Valley Times-News; Pete Temple, Monticello Express; Troy Hyde, Newton Daily News; Lori Wiser, Ocheyedan Press-Melvin News; Jake Jenkins, Oskaloosa Herald; John Jensen, Parkersburg Eclipse-News-Review; Perry Bell, Pella Chronicle; Dale Wegner, Sac City Sun; Jeff Budlong, Sioux City Journal and Troy Banning, Webster City Daily Freeman-Journal.
   
   The following coaches and representatives of the Iowa Football Coaches Association assisted with statistical information: Jerry Staton, Albia; Rick Nelson, Ankeny; Andy Umthum, ELC; Aaron Shipley, Grinnell; Brian Webb, Cedar Rapids Jefferson; Duane Schulte; Cedar Rapids Xavier; Bill Shafer, Central Springs; P.J. Hedrington, Des Moines Roosevelt; Tom Wilson, Dowling Catholic; Chris Visser, Glenwood; Kreg Lensch, Glidden-Ralston; Gabe Tardive, LeMars; Mike Parkinson, Lynnville-Sully; David Kuhl, Maple Valley; Brian Wilken, Newell-Fonda; Steve Shantz, Nodaway Valley; Lyle Alumbaugh, Panorama; Aaron Stensland, Roland-Story; Aaron Allspach, Twin Cedars; Cameron Parker, Twin Cedars; Sam Anderson, Urbandale; Gary Swenson, Valley West Des Moines; Steve Milder, West Central; Cody Hackett, West Marshall and George Ashman, Woodward-Granger.
   

I agree with the biased voting, When looking at quick stats Valley had kids on there that on paper is a big question, a 2nd team receiver that has 40 other kids finishing ahead of him for example, But you also have to look at your statement about Duggan, he is a very impressive QB as a sophomore. He will be at or near the top in the state for the next to years, and has offers because they see a huge amount of potential and skill that will continue to develop. But If you want to make the argument against the 1rst place all state QB with stats that is fair because in most stats compared to Lombardi he did outperform him , but so did about 15 other 4A QBs, There are 3 QB spots on Allstate, maybe according to stats the only one to bump for Duggan would be Lombardi, however Then to be fair you have to find a QB spot for Devon Moore. Take another look at Quick stats, Duggan did not finish in the top ten in passing yards or passing TDs. Even when factoring in rushing there were several guys with 200,400, and even 600 more total yards than him. Taking the QBs that had 100 or more pass attempts he was not in the top 10 in completion percentage and he threw 1 INT for every 35 attempts which is not even in the top 10 and 1 INT to 3 TD ration again not in top 10, granted for passing yards others played more games, but others that did not play the extra games ended ahead of him, the top guy , Sullivan, on Quick stats had almost 1,000 yards ahead of him without the extra game..
I am not disagreeing with you on the voting, there needs to be more input from the West and East. You don't say that he "got" Allstate honors, Or he "won" Allstate honors, people use the phrase He "earned " Allstate honors with the emphasis on EARN. We can talk about who is the best and has the most talent at a position , but sometimes the best don't EARN their performance at a given time, this given time was the 2016 season, not last year, and not what the future holds, how did the young man perform and work for his team compared to others THIS year? And it is glaring how that is not the case,, and maybe there is no fix.

 

[westside rules]

We are in agreement, my point is there is no rhyme or reason for how these kids made the list and I find it odd that a team like Urbandale has 4 players and didn't make the playoffs. However their coach was part of the selection process and is listed in the group that attended.

As for the 2 players I listed I will agree with you on Duggan, he should be in consideration and may or may not make a team when using Stats a primary indicator.

Theobald who I watched play against Harlan in game 1 put up state leading stats in 2 if not 3 categories and was shutout.

Flem. from East should have been a 1st team selection ( look at his stats) however I will refrain from speaking about East ( had to throw that in). I'm both happy and surprised they recognized Flem.

Baker TJ very deserving no issues there

But I think we do agree for the most part.

I feel obligated to express my opinion and support the players from the westside that should have been recognized and/or considered regardless of school /team.

I'm moving on now.

 

[DSM SPORTS FAN]

Looking at the list or coaches that attended or were invited to the voting meeting and the sports reporters who voted help answers our questions as to why and how. I will use two examples that jump off the page, one from 3A and the other from 4A.

Urbandale coach Sam Anderson attended the meeting. Urbandale was a team that did not make it to post season play and according to our independent expert (DSM Sports Fan) had 1 player on it's year end performers list (Milewsky).

Now lets use Sioux City and Council Bluffs for a comparison who have a total of 6 teams playing 4A with CBLC the only team making the playoffs.

Sioux City & Council Bluffs ( 6 HS) 3 players
Urbandale ( 1 high School) 4 players

So what the selectors are telling us is Urbandale (1 School) has 4 All State Players compared to #6 Sioux City and Council Bluffs High Schools have 3 players And Duggan and Theobald two premier players according to Quik Stats and DSM Sports Fan are not worthy yet Urbandale has 4 players deserving? BTW CBLC beat this team loaded with all state performers to capture a playoff spot.

How can a team like Urbandale with 4 ALL STATE PLAYERS not make it to post season?



Now lets look at 3A
I am not sure who or how reporters get invited but if you look some News Papers send multiple people to vote, an example would be Creston who show 2 attendees. How many players from Creston get selected to the ALL STATE TEAMS ( drum roll) #4. You would think a team with 4 all state players would get deep into post season.

So what's the point in all this? The system is a joke and the teams are not the best players but the players best represented at the voting ceremony

Before anyone asks, I'll admit that I am pissed at these selections and yes I am a west side guy and a Sioux City HS sports fan of both Heelan and East and just want fairness in the process.

Below is the list of reporters and coaches attending

1. 2016 INA ALL-STATE FOOTBALL TEAMS ANNOUNCED
   
   DES MOINES, IA – The Iowa Newspaper Association announced its 2016 All-State Football selections Tuesday, naming honorary captains in classes A, 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A and 8-Man.
   
   Sports writers serving on the INA selection committee which made the team selections were: Corey Meints, Ackley World Journal; Greg Grabianowski, Algona Upper Des Moines; Daryl Schepanski, Anamosa Journal-Eureka; K.J. Pilcher, Cedar Rapids Gazette; Kyle Ocker, Centerville Daily Iowegian; Kelly DeVore, Central City Linn News-Letter; Kaleb Carter, Creston News Advertiser; Ryan Kronberg, Creston News Advertiser; Matt Coss, Davenport Quad-City Times; Todd Danner, Denison Bulletin; Ross Eberhart, DeWitt Observer; Dan Voigt, Emmetsburg Publishing; Bruce Thein, Guttenberg Press; Kristi Nixon, Hampton Chronicle; Mike Oeffner, Harlan Newspapers; Bruce Odson, Hawarden Independent (via phone); Mike Helle, Knoxville Journal-Express; Stephen Koenigsfeld, Marshalltown Times-Republican; Adam Ring, Marshalltown Times-Republican; Ross Thede, Marshalltown Times-Republican; Blake Schultz, Mason City Globe Gazette; Jake Ryder, Mid-America Publishing; Matt Gengler, Missouri Valley Times-News; Pete Temple, Monticello Express; Troy Hyde, Newton Daily News; Lori Wiser, Ocheyedan Press-Melvin News; Jake Jenkins, Oskaloosa Herald; John Jensen, Parkersburg Eclipse-News-Review; Perry Bell, Pella Chronicle; Dale Wegner, Sac City Sun; Jeff Budlong, Sioux City Journal and Troy Banning, Webster City Daily Freeman-Journal.
   
   The following coaches and representatives of the Iowa Football Coaches Association assisted with statistical information: Jerry Staton, Albia; Rick Nelson, Ankeny; Andy Umthum, ELC; Aaron Shipley, Grinnell; Brian Webb, Cedar Rapids Jefferson; Duane Schulte; Cedar Rapids Xavier; Bill Shafer, Central Springs; P.J. Hedrington, Des Moines Roosevelt; Tom Wilson, Dowling Catholic; Chris Visser, Glenwood; Kreg Lensch, Glidden-Ralston; Gabe Tardive, LeMars; Mike Parkinson, Lynnville-Sully; David Kuhl, Maple Valley; Brian Wilken, Newell-Fonda; Steve Shantz, Nodaway Valley; Lyle Alumbaugh, Panorama; Aaron Stensland, Roland-Story; Aaron Allspach, Twin Cedars; Cameron Parker, Twin Cedars; Sam Anderson, Urbandale; Gary Swenson, Valley West Des Moines; Steve Milder, West Central; Cody Hackett, West Marshall and George Ashman, Woodward-Granger.

With all the buzz that this topic has created I hope the powers in charge take a step back and re-evaluate how they select all teams regardless of the sport. Not everyone will be happy but the people in charge at least need to make public what the criteria for selection is.

I also hope they improve on who is allowed to vote and make certain those voting are qualified to make the selections. I don't know many reporters on the list but as others have commented some may not be qualified, which is a major problem.

I also agree that having coaches at the selection process is not a good idea, it simply doesn't pass the taste test. Have them fill out a "why this kid deserves to be a All Stater" but don't have them at the voting. I would also limit the voters to 1 news publication per community (common sense) I would give those voting the candidates that are nominated a week before the meeting and have them write a few lines supporting their picks. This is a time commitment, if they can't or won't put in the time eliminate that voter or the whole damn thing.

In closing I hope those about to list other ALL State Teams (Register & C.R) are reading this and explain what went into their selections, and yes I think Stats have to be a large part of it.

If we accomplish only that then all the responses have been worth it. Register and others read and take note before you release your teams! If anyone has an e-mail address to the Register let them know you're feelings, I certainly plan on reaching out to them. I'm not much of a basketball guy but good luck to all the players and parents, enjoy the season and best holiday wishes to all.

DSM Sports Fan

 

[EastIowaHawk]

INA has three Marshalltown writers on the selection committee and towns like Dubuque have none? No wonder so many Dubuque kids walk onto teams at Iowa, etc. and eventually start, without being all-state. About fifteen years ago, a tackle from Dubuque ended up being a two-year starter for Iowa and a captain. Interestingly, he was never even on the all-city team, and of course was not all-state. Sure the top, top kids get honored, but farther down the line it becomes guesswork. That's why the top college coaches go see players for themselves and invite them to camps, etc. Congratulations to all the players who make the various all-state teams. You deserve the honor for all the hard work you put in. Just let it be known that in all parts of the state there are probably a few kids who deserved recognition but didn't get it because either a coach or a writer didn't go to bat for them. There are some awfully good players on losing teams who don't get the kudos. Then there is the ridiculous situation in which a coach nominates practically his whole starting units for conference honors. It happened once in eastern Iowa. I think the team finished in the bottom half of the conference and the coach is no longer active. On the INA all-state squads this year.there was one Dubuque player honored who is going to Mankato State, I believe. Bellevue, a tiny community 24 miles to the south, which plays 1A, had several players honored. Dubuque possibly didn't deserve to have any more, to be frank about it, but Bellevue had a stellar season against schools of 100 and 150 students, and they were rewarded for this.

 

[kennyarnold]

Guys,

It's pretty easy to follow the bias here. The authority in the room were the 4 coaches:

Dowling (9 selections) 12 wins
Valley (6) 10 wins
Ankeny (3) 6 wins
CR Jefferson (3) 2 wins​

If you believe that the best players play for the best teams, there are several injustices here based on numbers. How does Ankeny, or even worse, Jefferson have the same number or more all staters as Centennial (3) 10 wins, Iowa City West (3) 10 wins, or CR Prairie (1) 9 wins?

Those 3 teams are the ones that got hosed. Obviously the kids that were selected off those 3 teams caught people's eyes and you had to prepare for them. But for the number of wins those teams racked up....not enough representation.

 

[westside rules]

With all the buzz that this topic has created I hope the powers in charge take a step back and re-evaluate how they select all teams regardless of the sport. Not everyone will be happy but the people in charge at least need to make public what the criteria for selection is.

I also hope they improve on who is allowed to vote and make certain those voting are qualified to make the selections. I don't know many reporters on the list but as others have commented some may not be qualified, which is a major problem.

I also agree that having coaches at the selection process is not a good idea, it simply doesn't pass the taste test. Have them fill out a "why this kid deserves to be a All Stater" but don't have them at the voting. I would also limit the voters to 1 news publication per community (common sense) I would give those voting the candidates that are nominated a week before the meeting and have them write a few lines supporting their picks. This is a time commitment, if they can't or won't put in the time eliminate that voter or the whole damn thing.

In closing I hope those about to list other ALL State Teams (Register & C.R) are reading this and explain what went into their selections, and yes I think Stats have to be a large part of it.

If we accomplish only that then all the responses have been worth it. Register and others read and take note before you release your teams! If anyone has an e-mail address to the Register let them know you're feelings, I certainly plan on reaching out to them. I'm not much of a basketball guy but good luck to all the players and parents, enjoy the season and best holiday wishes to all.

DSM Sports Fan

Does anyone know when the register releases their all state teams? Also I like the idea of e-mailing them regarding how bad the other selection process was. I plan on doing so today. I have a bit more confidence in the Register

 

[Willymo]

Guys,

It's pretty easy to follow the bias here. The authority in the room were the 4 coaches:

Dowling (9 selections) 12 wins
Valley (6) 10 wins
Ankeny (3) 6 wins
CR Jefferson (3) 2 wins​

If you believe that the best players play for the best teams, there are several injustices here based on numbers. How does Ankeny, or even worse, Jefferson have the same number or more all staters as Centennial (3) 10 wins, Iowa City West (3) 10 wins, or CR Prairie (1) 9 wins?

Those 3 teams are the ones that got hosed. Obviously the kids that were selected off those 3 teams caught people's eyes and you had to prepare for them. But for the number of wins those teams racked up....not enough representation.

Ankeny had 4 actually

 

[HawkeyeDog]

Guys,

It's pretty easy to follow the bias here. The authority in the room were the 4 coaches:

Dowling (9 selections) 12 wins
Valley (6) 10 wins
Ankeny (3) 6 wins
CR Jefferson (3) 2 wins​

If you believe that the best players play for the best teams, there are several injustices here based on numbers. How does Ankeny, or even worse, Jefferson have the same number or more all staters as Centennial (3) 10 wins, Iowa City West (3) 10 wins, or CR Prairie (1) 9 wins?

Those 3 teams are the ones that got hosed. Obviously the kids that were selected off those 3 teams caught people's eyes and you had to prepare for them. But for the number of wins those teams racked up....not enough representation.

I don't totally agree that the best kids play for the best teams in evaluating individual skilled performance. You still have to look at each talent separately and the environment they played. Sure most of the winning teams have a combination of better coaching and overall better talent , but it could be spread around on the team where most of the kids are above average,,However, take a position of QB or RB on a team with a better O line. How would a very talented kid in the state on an average or losing record team play with that supporting cast? Or how tough are the other teams in the District? In some cases those kids performed better in production even though they didn't have the advantage of blocking etc, and they were more of an MVP factor on their team, now lets then take a RB or QB on one of those "Best" teams and put them on a team without the better players.. would they perform worse or better???? We really don't know. So we really need a system where they actual see some of these kids in action. And cut off the stats for true compatibility after the regular season, there were some deserving teams that did not make the playoffs because of the way the Districts are drawn up. But bottom line Having only those 4 4A coaches pull the strings illustrates the huge bias on their own players and other Central Iowa Players.