Down goes Xavier
- Thread starter LukeFeddersen
- Start date
Vroom,
Don't feel bad. Assumption destroyed Wahlert and yes, the 35 point rule kicked in. I never would have guessed that would have happened as Wahlert can run.
Don't feel bad. Assumption destroyed Wahlert and yes, the 35 point rule kicked in. I never would have guessed that would have happened as Wahlert can run.
Dav. Assumption 48, Dub. Wahlert 14. No surprise since Assumption's the best team the Eagles have faced thus far this season, now that the Knights are healthy. I still don't believe what Western Dubuque did to Xavier, since the Bobcats needed OT last week to nip Wahlert. Congrats to the Bobcats. Maybe there is more parity in 3A than we originally thought.
What the heck? I so did not see that one coming. Don't quite understand what happened? Did the moon and the stars just line up right for WD? So you saying there's a chance......
Western Dubuque came in with a great defensive game plan and executed it perfectly. They did an outstanding job of scouting and preparing for Xavier, and they were able to stop pretty much anything Xavier tried to do.
For one, Xavier had zero pass completions and gave up five or six sacks. The pass rush and the delayed blitzes WD used were very effective. The front seven also did a good job at slowing down the run game - although the Saints were able to get some ground yards in the second half, they couldn't make the yards they needed in key spots. Meanwhile, while the Xavier D kept the Bobcats bottled up most the game, WD was able to get some drives going in the third quarter.
Xavier's only score came in the second quarter on a 50+ yard fumble return. A botched hold on the extra point attempt made it only 6-0, which turned out to be a big deal. WD converted on a good third quarter drive, with a 22-yard TD pass on 4th and long giving them the lead after they made the extra point. Later they had the opportunity to kick a field goal to make it a 4-point lead, but they tried a fake that failed miserably (WD still has not even attempted a field goal yet this year). Even so, you always had the feeling Xavier was going to make a play to score again. It just never happened. One 4th down pass into the end zone was batted away. Xavier later had a great punt return all the way to the Bobcat 20, but were unable to drive it much closer. A sack on 3rd down didn't help as the 35-yard field goal try with the wind missed. The Saints had one last chance, forcing a three and out that used only 17 seconds of clock by using their time outs, but the ensuing punt was muffed and Western Dubuque recovered with about a minute left. Ball game.
Great, gutty performance by the Bobcats. They were well-prepared, well-coached and ready to play, and totally deserved this win. Now we are looking at a very real possibility of three teams with 5-1 district records in District 4 (Xavier, Western Dubuque and Solon) with the 13-point tiebreaker coming into play.
For one, Xavier had zero pass completions and gave up five or six sacks. The pass rush and the delayed blitzes WD used were very effective. The front seven also did a good job at slowing down the run game - although the Saints were able to get some ground yards in the second half, they couldn't make the yards they needed in key spots. Meanwhile, while the Xavier D kept the Bobcats bottled up most the game, WD was able to get some drives going in the third quarter.
Xavier's only score came in the second quarter on a 50+ yard fumble return. A botched hold on the extra point attempt made it only 6-0, which turned out to be a big deal. WD converted on a good third quarter drive, with a 22-yard TD pass on 4th and long giving them the lead after they made the extra point. Later they had the opportunity to kick a field goal to make it a 4-point lead, but they tried a fake that failed miserably (WD still has not even attempted a field goal yet this year). Even so, you always had the feeling Xavier was going to make a play to score again. It just never happened. One 4th down pass into the end zone was batted away. Xavier later had a great punt return all the way to the Bobcat 20, but were unable to drive it much closer. A sack on 3rd down didn't help as the 35-yard field goal try with the wind missed. The Saints had one last chance, forcing a three and out that used only 17 seconds of clock by using their time outs, but the ensuing punt was muffed and Western Dubuque recovered with about a minute left. Ball game.
Great, gutty performance by the Bobcats. They were well-prepared, well-coached and ready to play, and totally deserved this win. Now we are looking at a very real possibility of three teams with 5-1 district records in District 4 (Xavier, Western Dubuque and Solon) with the 13-point tiebreaker coming into play.
Little too cold for the DogBoy to get out last night but my Xavier buddy said it appeared Greg Davis used his bye week to give an offensive coaching clinic to the Xavier staff.
Once that was out of his system he told me they got whipped upfront and he was afraid of someone doing that before the year ended.
This post was edited on 10/4 1:00 PM by DogBoyRy
Once that was out of his system he told me they got whipped upfront and he was afraid of someone doing that before the year ended.
This post was edited on 10/4 1:00 PM by DogBoyRy
I don't think it will end up this way, but we are going into week 7 and there is a chance that Xavier could be the #3 seed out of that district. That is crazy.
Little to predictable. They only have QB throw flat screens or make him chuck up bombs. Xavier doesn't throw nothing over the middle or use other receivers. I had a lady sitting next to me that never comes to games and she knew what Xavier was running. WD was blizting everyone, only people staying back were the corners
Sounds like WD has shown everybody how to stop Xavier. Everybody doesn't have the personel that WD may have, but once playoff time rolls around and Xavier gets deeper into the playoffs, defenses will get more formidable. But, Xavier will adjust. The coaches are no dummies, this isn't their first rodeo. I pity Wahlert though. Xavier will come out with guns blazing next week seeking redemption.
Yeah, there's not much likelihood of that happening, but it is a possibility. I'm not very familiar with how the 13-point tiebreaker works, but I think the highest Western Dubuque can finish with is 9.0 (and that means they beat Solon and win the district outright anyway) and the highest Solon can get is 8.67. Xavier is currently sitting at 9.5 with only two district games left. They beat Wahlert and Marion by 10 points each, they'll finish second at worst and win the district if it's a three-way tiebreaker.
I think. You can check my math.
Actually, smallcenter, they changed the rule. Head to head is first, so a 3-way split would go to points and decide all three places.
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Posted from Rivals Mobile
Wow, that's crazy, pax. I didn't believe you at first, but I checked the postseason manual and you are right.
To quote:
"If all teams defeated each other:
(1) The 13 point tie breaker (using plus and minus points of district games divided by the
total number of games played within the district) will decide the district champion. The team with highest tiebreaker average will be the district champion and the second highest will be the district runner up, and the third highest will be the district third place team."
So, in theory, say Western Dubuque, Xavier and Solon all have 5-1 district records. Western Dubuque beat Xavier, Xavier beat Solon, Solon beat Western Dubuque. Just for grins, let's say WD has the top tiebreaker average, therefore they are awarded the district title. Fine, makes sense, you gotta have some way to break that tie. Then let's say Solon's tiebreaker average just tops Xavier's. Solon gets second place, and Xavier drops to third - even though Xavier beat Solon head to head.
In my opinion, this is a bad system. The old points system for 4A used to be similar, and in fact back in 2010 I know that caused a lower seeding for one team that had actually defeated the other head to head. After that was called to the IHSAA's attention, they changed it for 2012-13, so that once any multi-team tie got sorted out to just two, if there was a head to head result that took precedence.
I wonder why they changed that back for district placements. Seems less fair, to me.
To quote:
"If all teams defeated each other:
(1) The 13 point tie breaker (using plus and minus points of district games divided by the
total number of games played within the district) will decide the district champion. The team with highest tiebreaker average will be the district champion and the second highest will be the district runner up, and the third highest will be the district third place team."
So, in theory, say Western Dubuque, Xavier and Solon all have 5-1 district records. Western Dubuque beat Xavier, Xavier beat Solon, Solon beat Western Dubuque. Just for grins, let's say WD has the top tiebreaker average, therefore they are awarded the district title. Fine, makes sense, you gotta have some way to break that tie. Then let's say Solon's tiebreaker average just tops Xavier's. Solon gets second place, and Xavier drops to third - even though Xavier beat Solon head to head.
In my opinion, this is a bad system. The old points system for 4A used to be similar, and in fact back in 2010 I know that caused a lower seeding for one team that had actually defeated the other head to head. After that was called to the IHSAA's attention, they changed it for 2012-13, so that once any multi-team tie got sorted out to just two, if there was a head to head result that took precedence.
I wonder why they changed that back for district placements. Seems less fair, to me.
And just to clarify, my issue with this tiebreaker system isn't just because of my example where Xavier gets bumped to third. I would feel the same way if Solon managed to take the title in a three-way tie, and then the score tiebreaker gave Xavier second ahead of Western Dubuque. WD beat Xavier on the field - if there's a case of seeding being determined just between those two (once the third team in the tie is broken out as district winner), the results on the field between those two should make the difference and not the margin of victory they had over the course of the season.
I am fine with using that to sort out three- or four-way ties - you have to use something - but once it's just two teams left, it oughta be head to head.
I am fine with using that to sort out three- or four-way ties - you have to use something - but once it's just two teams left, it oughta be head to head.
Again, depends on the tiebreaker points average, which depends on the outcome of the remaining district games. The highest WD can get is 9.0, but that would mean they beat Solon so there would be no three-way 5-1 tie.
Xavier's tiebreaker average right now is 9.5, with games remaining against Wahlert and Marion. If they are able to win both games by at least 10 points that number isn't going down. As stated above, WD's number would have to be somewhere below 9 assuming a loss to Solon to make them 5-1. The best Solon can do is 8.67. So Xavier still has the upper hand to take the top spot given a three-way tie, but WD and Solon are neck-and-neck for spots two and three. It's possible they might go to the alphabet to sort that one out.
This post was edited on 10/4 7:56 PM by KidSilverhair
Let me edit here to add I don't think the alphabet will come into play, if you see my next post. It should go head to head if two of the three involved in the tie have the same tiebreaker.
Also here are the remaining games: Solon has Maquoketa, Western Dubuque and Wahlert. Western Dubuque has Marion, Solon and DeWitt Central.
This post was edited on 10/4 8:32 PM by KidSilverhair
Xavier's tiebreaker average right now is 9.5, with games remaining against Wahlert and Marion. If they are able to win both games by at least 10 points that number isn't going down. As stated above, WD's number would have to be somewhere below 9 assuming a loss to Solon to make them 5-1. The best Solon can do is 8.67. So Xavier still has the upper hand to take the top spot given a three-way tie, but WD and Solon are neck-and-neck for spots two and three. It's possible they might go to the alphabet to sort that one out.
This post was edited on 10/4 7:56 PM by KidSilverhair
Let me edit here to add I don't think the alphabet will come into play, if you see my next post. It should go head to head if two of the three involved in the tie have the same tiebreaker.
Also here are the remaining games: Solon has Maquoketa, Western Dubuque and Wahlert. Western Dubuque has Marion, Solon and DeWitt Central.
This post was edited on 10/4 8:32 PM by KidSilverhair
Okay, dug a little deeper. If Solon beats WD and we have three 5-1 teams, Xavier still has the edge for the district title via the points tiebreaker average. As long as they beat both Wahlert and Marion by more than 16 points combined, their average (8.83) will be higher than either Solon or WD can get.
If Solon beats WD by one point, or in overtime, and they both win their remaining games by 13 points or more, they will have the exact same tiebreaker average (6.67). Any bigger margin of victory for Solon gives them the edge - again assuming they both max out on possible point margins in the other games. The highest average Solon can get, should they win their last three (including WD) by 13 points or more, is 8.67.
Again, if WD loses to Solon by one (the only way we get a three-way tie scenario), the best average they can finish with is 6.67.
The best I can tell from the postseason manual is that three-way ties are sorted solely by tiebreaker averages, but it gets wonky if two of the three have the same tiebreaker. Xavier has the edge there unless they fail to win their final two by at least 16 points. If Solon beats WD by more than one, they likely get the second spot. If that margin is exactly one, and Solon and WD end up with the exact same average, I THINK it goes to head to head results - which, in this scenario, would still be Solon.
I stand corrected. I guess, now, thinking about it, yeah that did change. Welp, I made myself look silly.
Perhaps the outcome of the playoffs will be such that the Saints and Bobcats meet again. If so, there may be adjustments in preparation, differences in weather and changes in motivation. However, as it resulted, the victory was a community victory that placed a bit of joy and elation in a community with otherwise heavy hearts.
High school sports can be a suave for a small town.
Great 3A game!
High school sports can be a suave for a small town.
Great 3A game!
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