ADVERTISEMENT

Dowling Valley Final?

Nov 9, 2019
27
9
3
It seems like with these new pairings, there is a strong likelihood of a Dowling Valley Final. Any thoughts, and in particular, will it be Dowling or Valley on top in the end? Valley has played well all year and has a lot of skilled players, but Dowling didn't have Gavin Williams when they played earlier in the year and also often has only had the first stringers in the game during first half for the second half of their regular season (and in the Roosevelt playoff game). It is hard to bet against Dowling in the playoffs and their defense is strong, but maybe this is Valley's year? What do people think? Or, does anyone really think Kennedy or Bettendorf can beat these two in the semifinals?
 
Kennedy gave Valley a Battle when they lost, I think Kennedy has a better chance to beat Dowling than Bettendorf does Valley.

I'm going
Valley
Kennedy
 
I see Dowling and Valley winning by two touchdowns or more on Kennedy and Bettendorf. Kennedy has had a relatively easy schedule and had some close games with some mediocre teams.
 
Kennedy has had a relatively easy schedule and had some close games with some mediocre teams.
Other than the somewhat close first game against CRJ, not sure what you’re referencing. That’s a good quality team and having defeated Bett has given them confidence they may have lacked previously. There seems to be a theme of discounting the East.
 
I see Dowling and Valley winning by two touchdowns or more on Kennedy and Bettendorf. Kennedy has had a relatively easy schedule and had some close games with some mediocre teams.

Kennedy played both of the other semi finalists, beating one and good game with the other. 5 wins over playoff teams this year. That's one of the tougher schedules in the state. I'm sure a lot would pick Dowling because they are Dowling and until someone beats them why pick against them.
 
Kennedy played both of the other semi finalists, beating one and good game with the other. 5 wins over playoff teams this year. That's one of the tougher schedules in the state. I'm sure a lot would pick Dowling because they are Dowling and until someone beats them why pick against them.

It should be a very good game on Friday but Dowling is a late Valley touchdown away from being undefeated. And has beaten Ankeny twice, Centennial, Waukee and Johnston. And until they do lose in the playoffs, it is going to be tough to pick against them. But, at this point in the season it should be close and it would not be an upset for any outcome from here on out.
 
It should be a very good game on Friday but Dowling is a late Valley touchdown away from being undefeated. And has beaten Ankeny twice, Centennial, Waukee and Johnston. And until they do lose in the playoffs, it is going to be tough to pick against them. But, at this point in the season it should be close and it would not be an upset for any outcome from here on out.

I agree with GoBigD, only two teams have sometimes* beaten Dowling in the last seven years (Valley and Centennial), and nobody has beat them in the playoffs in the last seven. Additionally, Kennedy lost to Valley, and yes they beat Bettendorf, but they also had a close game with CR Prairie and CRJ, and didn't beat Urbandale by much. Whereas Dowling beat a strong Ankeny team by nearly 30 points. Additionally, Dowling's only loss was to Valley by a touchdown, and they didn't have the best running back in the state Gavin Williams at the time. Kennedy has done a good job building up their program in the past few years, but looking at the quality of teams they've played vs. Dowling (again, playing Centennial, Valley, Ankeny, Waukee, Johnston), it is hard to say that there schedule's are comparable. Kennedy played two really strong programs this year (Valley, Bettendorf), whereas Dowling played quite a few. But who knows? I hope it's a good game, but I see Dowling winning by a few touchdowns.
 
Other than the somewhat close first game against CRJ, not sure what you’re referencing. That’s a good quality team and having defeated Bett has given them confidence they may have lacked previously. There seems to be a theme of discounting the East.

Maybe the reason for this thought process is because the East is 5-15 over the last 20 seasons in the State Title game.

Not to mention the West has won the State Title game for almost a decade straight.....
 
Maybe the reason for this thought process is because the East is 5-15 over the last 20 seasons in the State Title game.

Not to mention the West has won the State Title game for almost a decade straight.....
Well let’s be fully in context with those numbers, 9 of those 15 wins and 7 of the last 10 4A championship wins are due to Dowling, hardly a “West” dominance, more accurately one program’s.
 
Maybe the reason for this thought process is because the East is 5-15 over the last 20 seasons in the State Title game.

Not to mention the West has won the State Title game for almost a decade straight.....
I don't think Dowling or Valley have much competition on that side of the State. Only Ankeny on 2012 is the only other school to win a title not named Dowling or Valley.

In the last 19yrs Ankeny has made the title game 2 times, SE Polk and Marshalltown each once on that side of the State.

This thing goes in cycles, the prior 28 years Dowling went 0-7 and Valley 0-2 In title games. The teams from the West went 5-17 In title games and 6 times they were not represented at all in the title game. In a 15yr span 86-99 only Ankeny managed to win a title.

I can tell you Valley and Dowling lobbied for the East/West split in 2000. Most likely due to the fact from 1980-99 between the two only made the title game 4 times.

I'm almost thinking that it would be better to get a Dowling/Valley finals out of the way and it may happen again. If it were to happen 2-3yrs in a row the State would come up with another system to keep that from happening and I could see them going back to the East/West Split
 
I don't think Dowling or Valley have much competition on that side of the State. Only Ankeny on 2012 is the only other school to win a title not named Dowling or Valley.

In the last 19yrs Ankeny has made the title game 2 times, SE Polk and Marshalltown each once on that side of the State.

This thing goes in cycles, the prior 28 years Dowling went 0-7 and Valley 0-2 In title games. The teams from the West went 5-17 In title games and 6 times they were not represented at all in the title game. In a 15yr span 86-99 only Ankeny managed to win a title.

I can tell you Valley and Dowling lobbied for the East/West split in 2000. Most likely due to the fact from 1980-99 between the two only made the title game 4 times.

I'm almost thinking that it would be better to get a Dowling/Valley finals out of the way and it may happen again. If it were to happen 2-3yrs in a row the State would come up with another system to keep that from happening and I could see them going back to the East/West Split

Correct. Hopefully if you had people stating that they believed that the West during that time wasn't getting respect....the same response that is currently used on the East could have been used on the West. Win a meaningful game and then you will get some respect.

Win a State Title. Show you can beat the West and then I would imagine that fans from the West would start respecting the East.

You don't think anyone challeneges Dowling out here? Valley is formidable every year. SEP is solid. Centennial is always solid. It took everything CF(the East's highest seed) had to beat Ankeny High, who all year was probably the 4th/5th best team in the Metro. Now throw in teams who usually field a solid program like Urbandale, Johnston, and Waukee and I can promise you there aren't many easy games in the Metro.
 
  • Like
Reactions: db1280
Correct. Hopefully if you had people stating that they believed that the West during that time wasn't getting respect....the same response that is currently used on the East could have been used on the West. Win a meaningful game and then you will get some respect.

Win a State Title. Show you can beat the West and then I would imagine that fans from the West would start respecting the East.

You don't think anyone challeneges Dowling out here? Valley is formidable every year. SEP is solid. Centennial is always solid. It took everything CF(the East's highest seed) had to beat Ankeny High, who all year was probably the 4th/5th best team in the Metro. Now throw in teams who usually field a solid program like Urbandale, Johnston, and Waukee and I can promise you there aren't many easy games in the Metro.

Pre 1999 it wasn't about lack of respect, it was about the State figuring out a way to make sure that a team from the West side of the State a spot in the finals. Giving the West a good chance of competing. So they went with the East/West Split.

I also said nobody can give Dowling and Valley a Challenge, not just Dowling. They are the two best programs on that side of the state.

Now I watched the Ankeny/CF game, CF could have blown that game wide open, but Ankeny got some calls that went their way.
CF actually gave Ankeny more than they could handle. Doesn't really matter, Ankeny has a good team.

You could also say the same about #3 ranked Ankeny Centennial giving a eventual 3-6 Waterloo West team everything it had when they beat them.

If you look at the Eastern side of the State from top to bottom all those teams have playoff tradition and from top to bottom any team can have a strong season.

I'd have to look it up, but I'm not so sure the Western Side of the state can say that, in fact they cannot
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reasoned
Last Year people said CF couldn't compete in the West. Probably the 6th best team at best.

Then they beat 3 teams, Indianola, Waukee, SE Polk pretty handily. Then they fell to Dowling in which they led most the game. So CF must have a pretty good program
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reasoned
Last Year people said CF couldn't compete in the West. Probably the 6th best team at best.

Then they beat 3 teams, Indianola, Waukee, SE Polk pretty handily. Then they fell to Dowling in which they led most the game. So CF must have a pretty good program

No one is saying that for one game that the East can't beat the West....it's just the fact that over the past 20 years, in the State Title game they have a hard time beating the West. In fact, the average point differential when the West beats the East (which is 15 times over the last 20 years) is by two touchdowns. Two TD's in high school football in the state of Iowa (which is predominately a run heavy state) is a pretty good chunk.

If we want to bring up 2018 and how CF almost beat Dowling...do you want to bring up....
2017 - Dowling by 14
2016 - Dowling by 13
2015 - Dowling by 31
2014 - Dowling by 35
2013 - Dowling by 14 (Shut out Xavier)

I mean anyone can cherry pick one game out where their team was competitive.
 
No one is saying that for one game that the East can't beat the West....it's just the fact that over the past 20 years, in the State Title game they have a hard time beating the West. In fact, the average point differential when the West beats the East (which is 15 times over the last 20 years) is by two touchdowns. Two TD's in high school football in the state of Iowa (which is predominately a run heavy state) is a pretty good chunk.

If we want to bring up 2018 and how CF almost beat Dowling...do you want to bring up....
2017 - Dowling by 14
2016 - Dowling by 13
2015 - Dowling by 31
2014 - Dowling by 35
2013 - Dowling by 14 (Shut out Xavier)

I mean anyone can cherry pick one game out where their team was competitive.
Two touchdowns is nothing and can be easily overcome. A two touchdown lead isn't blowing a team out of the water. You Cherry Picked the CF/Ankeny game and I cherry Picked Centennial/ Wat West.

CF/Dowling game could have gone either way. I seen it, you seen it and most of Iowa seen it.



I'm more curious to where you would rank Bettendorf?
 
Two touchdowns is nothing and can be easily overcome. A two touchdown lead isn't blowing a team out of the water. You Cherry Picked the CF/Ankeny game and I cherry Picked Centennial/ Wat West.

CF/Dowling game could have gone either way. I seen it, you seen it and most of Iowa seen it.



I'm more curious to where you would rank Bettendorf?

And then I "cherry picked" the 5 prior years to 2018 to show the West has won by at least two possessions during that time.

I noticed that someone said the West's dominance over the last 20 years has been more of a Dowling dominance. While that is correct, I would say that 3 (Dowling, Valley, & Ankeny) different teams from the West have won a title and during that same time 4 (Bettendorf, City High, ICW, and Xavier) from the East have won a title too. Doesn't seem like too much of a difference.

The CF/Dowling game could have went either way....just as so could have the Ankeny/CF game....but they didn't. CF had a solid squad last year, they also were able to play Dowling who was missing a player who accounted for something around 65% of their scoring. That's a huge blow. You know it, I know it, and most of Iowa knows it.

I am confused on what you're asking in terms of ranking Bettendorf?
 
And then I "cherry picked" the 5 prior years to 2018 to show the West has won by at least two possessions during that time.

I noticed that someone said the West's dominance over the last 20 years has been more of a Dowling dominance. While that is correct, I would say that 3 (Dowling, Valley, & Ankeny) different teams from the West have won a title and during that same time 4 (Bettendorf, City High, ICW, and Xavier) from the East have won a title too. Doesn't seem like too much of a difference.

The CF/Dowling game could have went either way....just as so could have the Ankeny/CF game....but they didn't. CF had a solid squad last year, they also were able to play Dowling who was missing a player who accounted for something around 65% of their scoring. That's a huge blow. You know it, I know it, and most of Iowa knows it.

I am confused on what you're asking in terms of ranking Bettendorf?
So now the only reason the Dowling/ CF game was close was because of one player?

Where would you rate Bettendorf, you seem to think CF was the 5th best team in the State, where does that put Bettendorf? You seem pretty good at rating teams, are they the 3rd,5th, 6th or 8th best team in the State
 
And then I "cherry picked" the 5 prior years to 2018 to show the West has won by at least two possessions during that time.

I noticed that someone said the West's dominance over the last 20 years has been more of a Dowling dominance. While that is correct, I would say that 3 (Dowling, Valley, & Ankeny) different teams from the West have won a title and during that same time 4 (Bettendorf, City High, ICW, and Xavier) from the East have won a title too. Doesn't seem like too much of a difference.

The CF/Dowling game could have went either way....just as so could have the Ankeny/CF game....but they didn't. CF had a solid squad last year, they also were able to play Dowling who was missing a player who accounted for something around 65% of their scoring. That's a huge blow. You know it, I know it, and most of Iowa knows it.

I am confused on what you're asking in terms of ranking Bettendorf?

The point to all of this, is Valley and Dowling could meet in the finals the next 3yrs. If you are Dowling and Valley you really don't want this to happen. Otherwise the State will change the playoff system again.

If you are Dowling/Valley you really only want this matchup a few times in a 5yr span. Otherwise The Iowa Athletic Ass.will change so it cannot happen. Just s observation
 
So now the only reason the Dowling/ CF game was close was because of one player?

Where would you rate Bettendorf, you seem to think CF was the 5th best team in the State, where does that put Bettendorf? You seem pretty good at rating teams, are they the 3rd,5th, 6th or 8th best team in the State

I hope this is your emotion coming out rather than your logic.

You don't believe missing Murray last year hindered Dowling's offense at all? You refer to him as "one player", yes, he is one player. One player with over 2,000 yards rushing and almost 30 TDs. I think it's safe to say that anyone who isn't completely blinded by love for a particular region or has an IQ above a can field paint can agree that missing that "one player" would be monumental to overcome.

Now onto rating Bettendorf. I have no data/games to assess how Bettendorf can stack up to the West. I have no idea on where I would rank them. Right now they are in the semi finals and getting ready to take on a tough Valley team. If Dowling wins I will be able to draw some major conclusions on if I believe Bettendorf could/will hang with them. Dowling/Valley was a heck of a match up this year. It was early in the season and Dowling was without Williams. He looks to be healthy and well rested. After the game on Friday you will be the first to know how I rate Bettendorf.
 
The point to all of this, is Valley and Dowling could meet in the finals the next 3yrs. If you are Dowling and Valley you really don't want this to happen. Otherwise the State will change the playoff system again.

If you are Dowling/Valley you really only want this matchup a few times in a 5yr span. Otherwise The Iowa Athletic Ass.will change so it cannot happen. Just s observation

So....wait....

You believe that the newly implemented RPI system will be thrown out the window if Valley/Dowling matchup with each other in the Final too much? I kinda believe they went to this RPI system because they see a wealth of talent in a particular area (Metro) and they were probably sick and tired of hearing the Metro complain that they only get a shot in the Semi-Final as oppose to the Final. I highly doubt if Dowling/Valley play in the Finals 3 consecutive years and each game is competitive they will change anything.
 
And then I "cherry picked" the 5 prior years to 2018 to show the West has won by at least two possessions during that time.

I noticed that someone said the West's dominance over the last 20 years has been more of a Dowling dominance. While that is correct, I would say that 3 (Dowling, Valley, & Ankeny) different teams from the West have won a title and during that same time 4 (Bettendorf, City High, ICW, and Xavier) from the East have won a title too. Doesn't seem like too much of a difference.

The CF/Dowling game could have went either way....just as so could have the Ankeny/CF game....but they didn't. CF had a solid squad last year, they also were able to play Dowling who was missing a player who accounted for something around 65% of their scoring. That's a huge blow. You know it, I know it, and most of Iowa knows it.

I am confused on what you're asking in terms of ranking Bettendorf?


I don't think Iowa thinks that. With Campbell on that defense, and how Murray was doing in the first half, I'd say he would have been about as effective as Teagan was. That defense was stout. We'll never know, but being there, I can say he was going to probably have a long night.
 
He only averaged 4 yds/carry vs Bett in the semis and CF's defense was much better than Bettendorf's last year, so that line of thinking that he automatically would have made a difference is flawed. He might have, but with the data we have, probably not.
 
If you believe that Murray was 100% for that game then I got some ocean front property for ya in Montana.

At the end of the day, the best RB in the state was out and Dowling still won.
 
So....wait....

You believe that the newly implemented RPI system will be thrown out the window if Valley/Dowling matchup with each other in the Final too much? I kinda believe they went to this RPI system because they see a wealth of talent in a particular area (Metro) and they were probably sick and tired of hearing the Metro complain that they only get a shot in the Semi-Final as oppose to the Final. I highly doubt if Dowling/Valley play in the Finals 3 consecutive years and each game is competitive they will change anything.
They won't throw the RPI out the window, they will just go back to the East/West split if they were to meet on a regular basis
 
If you believe that Murray was 100% for that game then I got some ocean front property for ya in Montana.

At the end of the day, the best RB in the state was out and Dowling still won.

Whatever. He had 27 carries against Bettendorf and hurt his ankle against CF on a tackle by Campbell. They had already handled Waukee and SEP with Gavin Williams. Just stop.
 
  • Like
Reactions: franky1967
Yeah...after your explanation I now see that Murray having a high ankle sprain and carrying the ball 6 times didn't affect Dowling's offense.

Thanks for enlightening me.....
 
Yeah...after your explanation I now see that Murray having a high ankle sprain and carrying the ball 6 times didn't affect Dowling's offense.

Thanks for enlightening me.....
You don't have to try to be obtuse. If you can't understand that he didn't do much against Bettendorf and was going against a better defense, I can't help you.

I mean, who can't talk about what-if injury scenarios? As a junior, Sam Gary ran for nearly 1700 yards. Shoulder and associated issues hurt his senior year. What if he was healthy, blah blah blah.
 
  • Like
Reactions: franky1967
If you believe that Murray was 100% for that game then I got some ocean front property for ya in Montana.

At the end of the day, the best RB in the state was out and Dowling still won.
So....wait....

You believe that the newly implemented RPI system will be thrown out the window if Valley/Dowling matchup with each other in the Final too much? I kinda believe they went to this RPI system because they see a wealth of talent in a particular area (Metro) and they were probably sick and tired of hearing the Metro complain that they only get a shot in the Semi-Final as oppose to the Final. I highly doubt if Dowling/Valley play in the Finals 3 consecutive years and each game is competitive they will change anything.
They will change it simply because it would not be good for Iowa High School football. 40 other coaches would agree and the Competition Committee would put a end to them meeting in the finals.

It seems like you are offended that because some kid couldn't finish the game with CF last year that the 22-16 score was a fluke? So I have to ask, if he even played the whole game CF wouldn't have been in the game?

That's like me saying if CF would have jammed the Bettendorf WRs at the line of scrimmage last week they would be playing Dowling tomorrow. But they didn't and the coaches learned a painful lesson .

I can tell you Bettendorf is probably even with Cedar Falls and According to you Cedar Falls is no better than Ankeny who you said is maybe the 5th best team on the Western Side of the State.

At any rate, I would just soon see a Valley/Dowling finals so the state can get it out of their system. I can just see the State looking at it and making changes. Just an opinion
 
Wait...if you are Dowling or Valley you don't want to go to the Title Game? What kind of logic is that? Every program wants to win a title, regardless of who you play in the championship or how you got there.

These things *used* to go in cycles but I don't think that is the case anymore. Population growth is a big factor. The Metro is growing faster than the eastern side of the state. Of the top 10 fastest growing cities in Iowa in 2019 by population growth, 8 are in the Des Moines MSA. When you expand it to the top 20, 11 are in the Metro. The number of kids goes a long way. For a perfect example of this, look at the school from the *true* west with traditional playoff history, Heelan.
 
Wait...if you are Dowling or Valley you don't want to go to the Title Game? What kind of logic is that? Every program wants to win a title, regardless of who you play in the championship or how you got there.

These things *used* to go in cycles but I don't think that is the case anymore. Population growth is a big factor. The Metro is growing faster than the eastern side of the state. Of the top 10 fastest growing cities in Iowa in 2019 by population growth, 8 are in the Des Moines MSA. When you expand it to the top 20, 11 are in the Metro. The number of kids goes a long way. For a perfect example of this, look at the school from the *true* west with traditional playoff history, Heelan.
Again you just do not get it, you think if Valley and Dowling are clearly head and shoulders above the rest and real off 2-3 straight final appearances that they will not go back to a East/West split?

We had a open playoff system like this before and it only took 2 East Final Games to go to the East/West split.

If they let it happen Dowling and Valley will be playing against themselves. I remember when football rosters averaged 50+. Go look at the quick Stats and look at the rosters now
 
I personally don't believe they will go away from the RPI system (highest vs lowest in the Semis no matter which region). I think the DSM Metro has the loudest voice in the State and definitely was the one pushing to get rid of the East/West divide.
 
I agree that it is money. DSM suburbs + CF + CR Kennedy/Prairie/Linn-Mar + Bettendorf

The rest of you are on your own. Good luck...unfortunately.

"Remember when City High was dominant? Well, I do, kid....."
 
  • Like
Reactions: franky1967
Wait...if you are Dowling or Valley you don't want to go to the Title Game? What kind of logic is that? Every program wants to win a title, regardless of who you play in the championship or how you got there.

These things *used* to go in cycles but I don't think that is the case anymore. Population growth is a big factor. The Metro is growing faster than the eastern side of the state. Of the top 10 fastest growing cities in Iowa in 2019 by population growth, 8 are in the Des Moines MSA. When you expand it to the top 20, 11 are in the Metro. The number of kids goes a long way. For a perfect example of this, look at the school from the *true* west with traditional playoff history, Heelan.

I have to agree with GoBigD again, The Des Moines Metro population growth is far outstripping the eastern side of the state. Additionally, there is increasing affluence-many of the people migrating are educated and relatively well-off compared to those living and/or migrating to the eastern side of the state. Moreover, the most successful programs in the east are in affluent college towns that fund their schools, have active communitiies, etc.(Iowa City, Cedar Falls, Bettendorf) and have relatively high incomes. Again, in general, the most successful programs usually have a relatively high SES, funding for school programs, and also relatively larger populations which allows for more talent. For example, think of if Ankeny did not have two high schools but only one-they would be a better team because they would have a wider array of potential talent and I would imagine the best school in the state. Ankeny and WDM have almost identical populations, yet Valley conitnues to be one giant (and affluent) high school, and therefore has more potential talent for sports and extracurriculars. Just as with Ankeny, when DM Hoover was built and took away a thirdish of Roosevelt's population in the early 70s, there prominence in sports went down and we are arguably seeing this with the new high school in Iowa City, which is probably why West isn't quite the program it used to be. Lastly, one must consider that Dowling, although in WDM, draws students from all over the metro, so they aren't taking away talent from any particular school or city, indeed, many come from the feeder parochial k-8 schools IN Des Moines, although I think roughly half of the students are also spread throughout the various suburbs of Des Moines (Urbandale, WDM, Johnston, etc.).
 
  • Like
Reactions: GoBigD6788
I agree that it is money. DSM suburbs + CF + CR Kennedy/Prairie/Linn-Mar + Bettendorf

The rest of you are on your own. Good luck...unfortunately.

"Remember when City High was dominant? Well, I do, kid....."
It wasn't just Iowa City High, but Iowa City West. However I do not think they were dominant as what we are seeing today with WD Dowling and sprinkle Valley once on awhile and we may never see it in our lifetimes again
 
It wasn't just Iowa City High, but Iowa City West. However I do not think they were dominant as what we are seeing today with WD Dowling and sprinkle Valley once on awhile and we may never see it in our lifetimes again

They have dropped off precipitously. IC West isn't there yet. I have seen them two years in a row, and they were just overwhelmed by CF. It was awful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: franky1967
ADVERTISEMENT