Des Moines Register do the right thing

[westside rules]

Do you have confidence that the register will do the right thing and use stats and review tape to select their All State Teams?
Iowa Preps has blown up with outcry over this weeks selections, do you see a similar outcome or do you have faith in the Register to put more time and effort into their All State Selections?

 

[dubco reviews]

I have complete faith they will get it right with maybe a little bias towards the west side of the state, I also hope they split it into corner and safety 2 categories and add a tight end category

 

[WSC72]

"Blown up"? I think that might be a bit of an exaggeration.

 

[westside rules]

I think people are very disappointed do you happen to be a voter?

 

[WSC72]

Not a voter. Personally I think the INA teams are based on who attends and which sports writers push the hardest, but it's been that way for a long time. I tend to agree with some of your sentiments but I thought the blowing up comment was a bit dramatic.

Typically the elite kids make the squad but the next group always goes to those who attend the meeting.

SOME people are disappointed,you are correct, but some will be disappointed when the Register team comes out as well.

 

[westside rules]

Ya you're probably right.

 

[DSM SPORTS FAN]

Unfortunately I'm not sure people will be satisfied however I do think they will do better then the INA did. I also think they will use stats to help determine and support their selections or hope they do.

 

[westside rules]

Unfortunately I'm not sure people will be satisfied however I do think they will do better then the INA did. I also think they will use stats to help determine and support their selections or hope they do.

My sisters 3 year old daughter could do better then the INA did, I'm hoping the INA is not the bar anyone measures themselves against.

 

[wolverine55]

Do you have confidence that the register will do the right thing and use stats and review tape to select their All State Teams?
Iowa Preps has blown up with outcry over this weeks selections, do you see a similar outcome or do you have faith in the Register to put more time and effort into their All State Selections?

I would bet money that no selection body reviews any game film when selecting their all-state teams.

 

[westside rules]

For the players sake (throughout the entire state) I hope you're wrong. I say this somewhat joking but the Register could use some guys like DSM Sports Fan to assist in the process. DSM Sports Fan made a comment about how much time he spent on the list he puts out throughout the year, I would hope the Register does the same X-10. This is very important to the players and needs to be fair, the need to look at key stats and view film at the very least.

I would bet money that no selection body reviews any game film when selecting their all-state teams.

 

[wolverine55]

Do coaches send film or hudl links with their nominations? I guess I didn't clarify my main point: I'm not sure what film the media types would even have access to?

 

[woodsiding]

My sisters 3 year old daughter could do better then the INA did, I'm hoping the INA is not the bar anyone measures themselves against.

Coaches from all over nominate kids for the teams. If a name isn't brought up by a coach it won't be on the team. They have a meeting and a few coaches from different parts of the state attend. They will answer questions about the kids they have seen play. When it is all done a few people are upset. You are in that group.

 

[HawkeyeDog]

For the players sake (throughout the entire state) I hope you're wrong. I say this somewhat joking but the Register could use some guys like DSM Sports Fan to assist in the process. DSM Sports Fan made a comment about how much time he spent on the list he puts out throughout the year, I would hope the Register does the same X-10. This is very important to the players and needs to be fair, the need to look at key stats and view film at the very least.

DsM sports fan I'm sure has good analysis but he leaves out the entire East side of the state.

 

[HawkeyeDog]

No, I do not think it will be a deserving list. It will highlight the kids who are "supposed" to be good or tagged as elite even though they did not have the year others who performed better and may be more deserving. Most likely be all Central Iowa team kids. I do think on both the Register and INA honors they need an actual committee who can take the time to travel to different parts of the state to watch these kids in action throughout the year, like DSM Sportsfan does, but have at least one dedicated to each area of the state.. The recent Allstate list does seems to have the most glaring errors than in the past 10 years that I have been following closely.

 

[Dragon7678]

The newspapers don't even send reporters out to cover all of the games anymore, so why would they send people out to select all state squads... At the end of the day it comes down to who the coaches nominate and who has scholarship offers and who is perceived to be the best because they play at the best schools. It's awfully hard to earn all state honors when you play for a not so great team vs being a starter on a powerhouse. Just because of where and who you play for doesn't necessarily mean your a better player than some kids who unfortunately live within the school boundaries of a not great team. It's always nice to earn the recognition but it's not worth much when it comes from people that have never seen you play

 

[westside rules]

Coaches from all over nominate kids for the teams. If a name isn't brought up by a coach it won't be on the team. They have a meeting and a few coaches from different parts of the state attend. They will answer questions about the kids they have seen play. When it is all done a few people are upset. You are in that group.

So you don't find it odd that a Des Moines School that failed to even make the playoffs and who's coach attended the meeting managed to get 4 players on one of the all state teams? Yet Sioux City and Council Bluffs (6) schools only had 3 player selected. Also before you respond back I also was told the 6 schools ( SC&CB) nominated 10 players. I don't believe any coaches from the 6 schools (SC&CB) attended the meeting ( unless I am being lied too and it would not be the first time).
It's just hard to swallow and as another person responded "doesn't pass the smell test"

Also why would they allow the same Newspaper to send multiple reports to vote? They actually think a small town paper who sends 2 voters won't vote for their local kids over another player? BTW the publication that sent 2 voters also had 4 players make one of the teams, for the record the team I am referencing was eliminated in the 1st round of the playoffs in 3A.

Would you not think that the 2 examples I provided where 2 Teams that had a total of 8 All State Players would make a deep run, I sure would. Well one never even made the playoffs 4A and the others was knocked out in the opening round in class 3A.

The one thing I agree with in you post is that I'm upset, you certainly nailed that one. I guess it's time to move on now been talked about enough.

 

[Dragon7678]

Perhaps a better idea would be to break up the state into regions Eastern, Central and Western Iowa and have all regional teams rather than all state

 

[cidhawkeye]

The newspapers don't even send reporters out to cover all of the games anymore, so why would they send people out to select all state squads... At the end of the day it comes down to who the coaches nominate and who has scholarship offers and who is perceived to be the best because they play at the best schools. It's awfully hard to earn all state honors when you play for a not so great team vs being a starter on a powerhouse. Just because of where and who you play for doesn't necessarily mean your a better player than some kids who unfortunately live within the school boundaries of a not great team. It's always nice to earn the recognition but it's not worth much when it comes from people that have never seen you play

There are kids who don't get the recognition that they have earned because they play on a powerhouse team, whether it's not piling up stats because they only play half the game or because there are elite players on their team who will earn the recognition and the coaches hesitate to push too hard for too many kids.

 

[portpro]

There are kids who don't get the recognition that they have earned because they play on a powerhouse team, whether it's not piling up stats because they only play half the game or because there are elite players on their team who will earn the recognition and the coaches hesitate to push too hard for too many kids.

Apparently you are not a suburban Des Moines area H.S head coach...because they see it completely different! Just the way a lot of fans/coaches perceive it !!

 

[cidhawkeye]

Apparently you are not a suburban Des Moines area H.S head coach...because they see it completely different! Just the way a lot of fans/coaches perceive it !!

I am not, eastern Iowa fan who has watched some good kids not get recognized due to team mates or the 'participation' awards for players on teams that weren't very good and the players weren't even solid.

 

[HawkeyeDog]

The DesMoines schools have to much pull, somehow they get players honored who may not deserve it this year.

 

[portpro]

The DesMoines schools have to much pull, somehow they get players honored who may not deserve it this year.

Thank you..HawkeyeDog! Spot on!!

 

[westside rules]

The DesMoines schools have to much pull, somehow they get players honored who may not deserve it this year.

Like I said before

So you don't find it odd that a Des Moines School that failed to even make the playoffs and who's coachattended the meeting managed to get 4 players on one of the all state teams? Yet Sioux City and Council Bluffs (6) schools only had 3 player selected. Also before you respond back I also was told the 6 schools ( SC&CB) nominated 10 players. I don't believe any coaches from the 6 schools (SC&CB) attended the meeting ( unless I am being lied too and it would not be the first time).
It's just hard to swallow and as another person responded "doesn't pass the smell test"

Also why would they allow the same Newspaper to send multiple reports to vote? They actually think a small town paper who sends 2 voters won't vote for their local kids over another player? BTW the publication that sent 2 voters also had 4 players make one of the teams, for the record the team I am referencing was eliminated in the 1st round of the playoffs in 3A.

Would you not think that the 2 examples I provided where 2 Teams that had a total of 8 All State Players would make a deep run, I sure would. Well one never even made the playoffs 4A and the others was knocked out in the opening round in class 3A.

The one thing I agree with in you post is that I'm upset, you certainly nailed that one. I guess it's time to move on now been talked about enough.

 

[HawkeyeDog]

The newspapers don't even send reporters out to cover all of the games anymore, so why would they send people out to select all state squads... At the end of the day it comes down to who the coaches nominate and who has scholarship offers and who is perceived to be the best because they play at the best schools. It's awfully hard to earn all state honors when you play for a not so great team vs being a starter on a powerhouse. Just because of where and who you play for doesn't necessarily mean your a better player than some kids who unfortunately live within the school boundaries of a not great team. It's always nice to earn the recognition but it's not worth much when it comes from people that have never seen you play

Who had a scholarship? Those can be committed before a season and is based on the potential and talent that scouts and coaches see as an asset to their team after highschool, a few offensive players who have scholarships prior to the season did not have that great of year up to their potential compared to others at the same position. Plus, one or a few of those won't even play the position they are playing now, he will be utilized where he will be more productive,,

 

[HawkeyeDog]

Who had a scholarship? Those can be committed before a season and is based on the potential and talent that scouts and coaches see as an asset to their team after highschool, a few offensive players who have scholarships prior to the season did not have that great of year up to their potential compared to others at the same position. Plus, one or a few of those won't even play the position they are playing now, he will be utilized where he will be more productive,,

Just saying , it would be nice to throw at any preconceived notions, or who was "supposed" to be elite this year, or what school they play for, or how much the coaches pumped them up to the press during the season....and just look at which athletes did the best THIS year, during the football year at their position , and what impact they had for their team

 

[Dragon7678]

Just saying , it would be nice to throw at any preconceived notions, or who was "supposed" to be elite this year, or what school they play for, or how much the coaches pumped them up to the press during the season....and just look at which athletes did the best THIS year, during the football year at their position , and what impact they had for their team

So than what do you want for criteria, my point was that some athletes are getting picked not because of the season they have, including their stats, but because of their reputation because of the schools they come from and the fact that they have their scholarship offers.

I'll give you an example and you tell me if I am right or wrong, Rocky Lombardi is a 1st team all state quarterback. Granted he has a division I scholarship commitment to Michigan State. But if we're going to use season statistics to determine who had the best season and who should be all state than he's 18th in the state in 4A in passing, Third in the State in 4A passing is Moore from Waterloo West who wasn't even selected as a quarterback but as a utility player.

To further my point at running back who ranked 4th in 4A in rushing who isn't mentioned on any all state team probably because he played for a 0-9 team.

So then... what do you want to use for criteria for selecting these all state teams? What players are you all so slighted against that didn't get selected or didn't get a fair shake, if you think their is a regional bias than direct your frustrations at the coaches and media representatives that didn't take the time or effort to attend the meetings and fight for their players. Is it a fair system, no it will never be because your asking people to select these teams who haven't seen most of these players play, coaches nominate then they have to go advocate and from the list of coaches that attended the INA that I saw there wasn't much representation.

 

[HawkeyeDog]

So than what do you want for criteria, my point was that some athletes are getting picked not because of the season they have, including their stats, but because of their reputation because of the schools they come from and the fact that they have their scholarship offers.

I'll give you an example and you tell me if I am right or wrong, Rocky Lombardi is a 1st team all state quarterback. Granted he has a division I scholarship commitment to Michigan State. But if we're going to use season statistics to determine who had the best season and who should be all state than he's 18th in the state in 4A in passing, Third in the State in 4A passing is Moore from Waterloo West who wasn't even selected as a quarterback but as a utility player.

To further my point at running back who ranked 4th in 4A in rushing who isn't mentioned on any all state team probably because he played for a 0-9 team.

So then... what do you want to use for criteria for selecting these all state teams? What players are you all so slighted against that didn't get selected or didn't get a fair shake, if you think their is a regional bias than direct your frustrations at the coaches and media representatives that didn't take the time or effort to attend the meetings and fight for their players. Is it a fair system, no it will never be because your asking people to select these teams who haven't seen most of these players play, coaches nominate then they have to go advocate and from the list of coaches that attended the INA that I saw there wasn't much representation.

I think we are actually on the same page, The Heisman is an Individual award, Watson was preseason favorite and thought to be the best talent, but Lamar Jackson even though they lost the last few has the advantage because of his production and stats..They don't just give the award to who they thought was the best beginning of season, so I agree Rocky did not have the season that other QBs had, his completion percentage was way less, he was an inaccurate passer when his team needed,it most,, , Moore had a better season all around than Rocky, and Sullivan had an even better season-- he led All classes in passing for regular season, and consistently led 4A the entire year, he broke the entire Eatern Iowa Passing record and led his school to the best record in 7 years, he has almost 1,200 more passing yards than Rocky. the RB you mention is also a shame, Dot Combs, he was actually up at the top rushing leader before the playoff games were updated on quick stats, just because his team was 0/9, shouldn't matter, it makes his accomplishment even more special, he didn't have the O line like the "Best" teams,,, and worked harder on his own and did great things., And the Valley receiver who made 2nd team wasn't even in the top 40, the Muscatine WR , Greenshaw had the stats and skills to be first team,, Duggan, who is a promising QB even had a better year than Rocky.... I know Rocky is a good kid, and will do well at some position in college,, so it is tough putting these kids in this situation. But not giving an individual achievement award just because of a scholarship or what team they are on , I do not agree with,,it's too political and I'm sure other people on this forum can insert their player examples in place of mine..... thus the reason for a solution should require more than 3 Des Moines coaches and the one CR coach pulling the votes

So , Dragon, I believe we have the same thoughts ....

 

[Dragon7678]

Yep we're in agreement, I don't like how any post season awards are handed out to be honest. I recall, not sure if it's the same way with districts, but in the old conference format as a coach you got so many players for 1st team and second team and then could add on as many honorable mention depending on where you finished in the conference. So the conference champ got something like 4 or 6 spots on first team regardless of whether they were the best at their spots, I am sure its still the same. I also don't like how the position groups are listed, specifically when you have 4 dline spots, 4 linebacker spots and only 3 defensive back spots, that doesn't make sense.

I learned long ago these teams don't mean much.

 

[westside rules]

I think we are actually on the same page, The Heisman is an Individual award, Watson was preseason favorite and thought to be the best talent, but Lamar Jackson even though they lost the last few has the advantage because of his production and stats..They don't just give the award to who they thought was the best beginning of season, so I agree Rocky did not have the season that other QBs had, his completion percentage was way less, he was an inaccurate passer when his team needed,it most,, , Moore had a better season all around than Rocky, and Sullivan had an even better season-- he led All classes in passing for regular season, and consistently led 4A the entire year, he broke the entire Eatern Iowa Passing record and led his school to the best record in 7 years, he has almost 1,200 more passing yards than Rocky. the RB you mention is also a shame, Dot Combs, he was actually up at the top rushing leader before the playoff games were updated on quick stats, just because his team was 0/9, shouldn't matter, it makes his accomplishment even more special, he didn't have the O line like the "Best" teams,,, and worked harder on his own and did great things., And the Valley receiver who made 2nd team wasn't even in the top 40, the Muscatine WR , Greenshaw had the stats and skills to be first team,, Duggan, who is a promising QB even had a better year than Rocky.... I know Rocky is a good kid, and will do well at some position in college,, so it is tough putting these kids in this situation. But not giving an individual achievement award just because of a scholarship or what team they are on , I do not agree with,,it's too political and I'm sure other people on this forum can insert their player examples in place of mine..... thus the reason for a solution should require more than 3 Des Moines coaches and the one CR coach pulling the votes

So , Dragon, I believe we have the same thoughts ....

Excellent response and sums it up well.

I actually put greater value in the selections DSM Sports Fan put out throughout the year for central/west 4A. Maybe he will go East for some games next year and do the entire state! DSM SF all state-team !

To be honest he probably could do East and West via Hudl/& Quik Stats and some live viewing.
What I like about his observations are:
a) he has no skin in the game and watches for the enjoyment of the sport, he may not even know any of the players/coaches on a personal side. He seems to call it like he see it in a respectful manner

b) agree of disagree with his picks he supported each pick with data on why he picked them. Some I may not have totally agreed with until I read his supporting data.

c) he actually watched many of his picks live and provided updates throughout the year, sure the kids who look at the board appreciated that.

d) he claims he put hours of research into his selections and I believe it, go read his "top performers of the year" and look at the detail/write up on each selection. I know the INA can't say that and probably not the Register either.

Or maybe since he is local the Register should ask him to be part of their selection board.

 

[westside rules]

↑
Josey Jewell gets screwed on All Big 10 selections, ends up on 2nd Team!

However...

they had 5 INA beat writers show up and vote along with coaches from Urbandale and Ankeny there to only help answer question about players. Unfortunately Josey did not make first team however 4 Urbandale players did make first team all big 10.

 

[westside rules]

anyone know when the Register is releasing their selections?

 

[adambadger]

I like DSM Sport Fans ranking over the INA and the Des Moines Register. DSM Sports Fan thanks for giving us your thoughts on the players each week.

 

[DSM SPORTS FAN]

thanks you Sir and congrats on Bettendorf another nice season and some players on that team!

 

[dubco reviews]

In my opinion they nailed it, very impressed

 

[westside rules]

I don't know if they nailed it or not but I like it 10X better the INA.

 

[petersdj1]

I don't know if they nailed it or not but I like it 10X better the INA.

How does Valley have no 1st team representative on the 4A team? From the newspaper that had them ranked #1 weeks 4 thru 9.....

 

[HawkeyeDog]

How does Valley have no 1st team representative on the 4A team? From the newspaper that had them ranked #1 weeks 4 thru 9.....

Who would you suggest should be on from Valley?

 

[petersdj1]

Who would you suggest should be on from Valley?

DL Naba to start is a no-brainer. QB Lombardi would be an option. DB Mahoney. K Hahn...... Did you watch them play at all?

 

[HawkeyeDog]

DL Naba to start is a no-brainer. QB Lombardi would be an option. DB Mahoney. K Hahn...... Did you watch them play at all?

Yes, saw Lombardi play twice, Moore play once, Lombardi was lucky to make honorable mention, he didn't even finish in the top 15 in 4A, I thought it should be between Moore and Sullivan from Clinton, both seemed to play at an all around higher level than Lombardi this year, , Sullivan broke the Eatern Iowa record and was the leader in all classes for the season, and Moore's and Sullivan's longer passing accuracy seemed to be better than Lombardi, and neither of the two had the protection that Lombardi seemed to have, tough call on Mahoney,, I agree on the kicker,, touchback in HS are huge and Hahn did kill it in that department.

 

[HawkeyeDog]

Overall, my opinion, The Registers list is much more representative of player's actual performances for this year by far....