Controversy at end of Heelan/Western game

[VanderHoops]

http://siouxlandnews.com/sports/schedule/heelan-tops-western-christian-in-wild-finish-at-the-pit

Last minute of the game, Heelan up by 2 & commits a foul.
Official calls a technical foul on a Western fan sitting behind the bench!
(no prior warnings were given and no profanity was used).

Western had missed so many bunnies and free throws during the game to get themselves into position to lose to a good Heelan team, but I would have loved to have seen it play out on the court instead of ending like this.

The Pit is already a tough place to play, but calls like this make it tougher.

 

[Jayz10]

http://siouxlandnews.com/sports/schedule/heelan-tops-western-christian-in-wild-finish-at-the-pit

Last minute of the game, Heelan up by 2 & commits a foul.
Official calls a technical foul on a Western fan sitting behind the bench!
(no prior warnings were given and no profanity was used).

Western had missed so many bunnies and free throws during the game to get themselves into position to lose to a good Heelan team, but I would have loved to have seen it play out on the court instead of ending like this.

The Pit is already a tough place to play, but calls like this make it tougher.

I was originally told that an assistant coach got the technical. But it sounds like you were there. Who were the officials?

 

[VanderHoops]

I was originally told that an assistant coach got the technical. But it sounds like you were there. Who were the officials?

The ref refused to specify who he called it on (he didn't know, just heard something he didn't like).
REALLY odd that it was called after Heelan was just called for a foul?

Don't know who the refs were, but was told that one of them was at one time a former Heelan asst coach.

*I don't this lost the game for them, but the final minute would have played out differently, maybe with the same outcome.

 

[Lyoncounty]

I have never seek such a look of surprise at a T by an entire coaching staff like that. 99% of the time a T is given on a bench, they know it. Those coaches looked genuinely shocked at that call.

 

[BGI User 2364]

The officials were out of Sgt Bluff and were not affiliated with Heelan. No clue what would have happened with the game, but the ref banged the fan right away on the T so guessing whatever was said was not appropriate. Agree on the Western staff looking shocked. Officiating was not great, but not great on both sides. Called ticky tacky stuff and let some hard fouls on shots go.

 

[VanderHoops]

The officials were out of Sgt Bluff and were not affiliated with Heelan. No clue what would have happened with the game, but the ref banged the fan right away on the T so guessing whatever was said was not appropriate. Agree on the Western staff looking shocked. Officiating was not great, but not great on both sides. Called ticky tacky stuff and let some hard fouls on shots go.

The foul count was 10-2 at the time. A foul was called on Heelan.
I was in earshot and someone yelled "it's about time." No profanity. Very odd to not at least issue a warning, especially to a spectator, and even then, ejecting the fan is the appropriate move.

Regardless of this game, Heelan-Western is a great multi-sport rivalry, and I love that both schools seek out the best competition, which has translated to post-season success.

 

[Saywhat2]

I'm confused. Aren't the officials supposed to contact a school administrator if a fan is being out if control? The administrator then escorts the fan out of the building. How does a fan get a technical? Coaches aren't responsible for fan behavior. The AD or someone else is. Strange.

 

[Bulldog198240]

Actually a fan can get a technical...and yes coaches and admin are responsible for their fans behavior......BUT to your point typically the official will contact the on site admin and have the fan removed in a situation like this

 

[GoHawks2009]

Actually a fan can get a technical...and yes coaches and admin are responsible for their fans behavior......BUT to your point typically the official will contact the on site admin and have the fan removed in a situation like this

That would be the logical thing to do.

 

[Saywhat2]

How is a coach held responsible for fan behavior? Don't they have enough to do without worrying about fans? It's the administrators job to keep fans in order, not the coach. Heck. If that's the case, why not have someone sit behind the opposing teams bench and yell at the officials to get a T on the opposing team? I've never seen a fan get a T. I've seen them escorted out after an official contacted the onsite administrator but never given a T. Officials always meet with the hosting schools onsite administrator prior to the game so they know who to contact. I don't see how that could happen. I've seen a fan run on the floor. He got escorted out but the team did not get a T? Why would a team get punished for some idiot in the stands?

 

[StatewidePundit]

Watched game on Hudl. Looked like two good teams playing a tough fast physical game. Officials did a good job. Heard both benches were warned many times, WC staff should of told foul mouth fan to get away or shut up.
How good was Heelan before starter broke his ankle ! They look damn good without him.

 

[mtdew_fever]

Holy crap? Where did you see a fan run on the court?

How is a coach held responsible for fan behavior? Don't they have enough to do without worrying about fans? It's the administrators job to keep fans in order, not the coach. Heck. If that's the case, why not have someone sit behind the opposing teams bench and yell at the officials to get a T on the opposing team? I've never seen a fan get a T. I've seen them escorted out after an official contacted the onsite administrator but never given a T. Officials always meet with the hosting schools onsite administrator prior to the game so they know who to contact. I don't see how that could happen. I've seen a fan run on the floor. He got escorted out but the team did not get a T? Why would a team get punished for some idiot in the stands?

 

[cruhawk]

How is a coach held responsible for fan behavior? Don't they have enough to do without worrying about fans? It's the administrators job to keep fans in order, not the coach. Heck. If that's the case, why not have someone sit behind the opposing teams bench and yell at the officials to get a T on the opposing team? I've never seen a fan get a T. I've seen them escorted out after an official contacted the onsite administrator but never given a T. Officials always meet with the hosting schools onsite administrator prior to the game so they know who to contact. I don't see how that could happen. I've seen a fan run on the floor. He got escorted out but the team did not get a T? Why would a team get punished for some idiot in the stands?

I'm a Heelan parent, but I have to say that it was a bush league move if a ref "T'd" a team because of a fan who simply said "it's about time" on a foul call. No profanity/vulgarity, etc.

1.) Coaches aren't responsible for what a fan says; what's to keep a fan of a school from becoming a "plant" behind the opposing team's bench for the purpose of drawing a "T" on them?

2.) "It's about time" is hardly crude or vulgar, and if the ref got offended by that, he's in the wrong business.

Like I said, I'm a Heelan person, but if that's what really went down, that official shouldn't be doing anymore games for awhile. Refs need to be held more accountable.

 

[Saywhat2]

You are absolutely wrong...administrators and coaches ARE responsible for their fans behavior....BTW it's article 8.1 in the rule book.

Like I previously said...in this instance the T should not have been called and the ref should have contacted the admin on site and had the fan removed...absolute great discretion should be given before penalizing a team for a fan.

I would also like to know what exactly the ref heard and if he thought it was from the team bench....we are only hearing one side of the story here.

Please provide a link to the rule you are talking about. Explain to me how a coach, while focused on coaching a game is responsible for a fan yelling at an official? In general, yes, a school is responsible for fan behavior( providing security, administrative presence, etc). But to say a coach is responsible for a fan seems like a misinterpretation of rules regarding fan behavior. An official giving a T to a fan before speaking to the onsite administrator probably should not be officiating.

 

[cruhawk]

You are absolutely wrong...administrators and coaches ARE responsible for their fans behavior....BTW it's article 8.1 in the rule book.

Like I previously said...in this instance the T should not have been called and the ref should have contacted the admin on site and had the fan removed...absolute great discretion should be given before penalizing a team for a fan.

I would also like to know what exactly the ref heard and if he thought it was from the team bench....we are only hearing one side of the story here.

1.) Link to said rule.
2.) Are you suggesting that a fan be removed for saying "it's about time" to a ref?
3.) Are YOU the official in question?

 

[Biting Sows]

1.) Link to said rule.
2.) Are you suggesting that a fan be removed for saying "it's about time" to a ref?
3.) Are YOU the official in question?

1.) Link to said rule.
2.) Are you suggesting that a fan be removed for saying "it's about time" to a ref?
3.) Are YOU the official in question?

Link to Article Case Ruling
ART. 1

The officials shall: Penalize unsporting conduct by any player, coach, substitute, team attendant or follower.

NOTE: The home management or game committee is responsible for spectator behavior, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators. The officials may rule fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game. Discretion must be used in ruling such fouls, however, lest a team be unjustly penalized. When team supporters become unruly or interfere with the orderly progress of the game, the officials shall stop the game until the host management resolves the situation and the game can proceed in an orderly manner. In the absence of a designated school representative, the home coach shall serve as the host management.

This is copied from NFHS rule book.

 

[Saywhat2]

Link to Article Case Ruling
ART. 1

The officials shall: Penalize unsporting conduct by any player, coach, substitute, team attendant or follower.

NOTE: The home management or game committee is responsible for spectator behavior, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators. The officials may rule fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game. Discretion must be used in ruling such fouls, however, lest a team be unjustly penalized. When team supporters become unruly or interfere with the orderly progress of the game, the officials shall stop the game until the host management resolves the situation and the game can proceed in an orderly manner. In the absence of a designated school representative, the home coach shall serve as the host management.

This is copied from NFHS rule book.

Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like an official failed to follow procedure as outlined in the rule. Kind of what I expected. The coach is NOT personally responsible for fan behavior. Just as I thought, the officials are to contact the host schools AD or " onsite management" to handle unruly fans. Not T up the coach. Holding a coach personally responsible for fans is unenforceable.

 

[Saywhat2]

And once again. You are misinterpreting the rule. Re- read it yourself. The coach of the home team is considered the onsite administrator IF no one else is there. The coach would be contacted by an official, and the coach would have the fan removed. You are claiming the coach and his team CAN be heald personally responsible for a fan. Otherwise, why would a coach get a T for a fan? It's ridiculous. Only an official who should never be officiating would make a call like that, and apparently did. Are you feeling guilty about making the call or what.