Classification?

[rc1963]

Going through the state website, there's kind of a mish-mash of information regarding soccer classing this year.

Most of the information appears to not yet be updated. But there is updated CBEDS data for the super set of schools for the 21/22 school year, on the master classification page (not soccer specific)

The soccer page says that schools are classed 3A - Biggest 48, 2A next 48 and 1A the rest. However, if you look at last year's soccer classification list the first 48 were in 3A, the next 56 were in 2A. The substate last year also had 56 in 2A, so I think that's valid.

So, if you take the new CBEDS data, put together the same coops as last year, and drop our the schools without programs (there are a few in the 2A range) you end up with a few interesting re-classifications.
- Solon jumps way up from 1A to the 34th spot in 2A (so regardless if the cutoff is 48 or 56, it looks like they'll be 2A)
- MOC-Floyd Valley comes up into 2A

- And the biggest news would be Notre Dame/West Burlington becomes the 100th biggest school - If the state really does cutoff at 96, they'[ll remain in 1A - If they follow what they appear to have done last year and include 56 in 3A, they would be number 52 of those 56

The 2021 Soccer Classification page says it was last updated April 15, 2021, so I take it that the classification list is still subject to change for the upcoming season. So, I wonder what the state will do, conform to what they said the breakpoint would be, or follow the practice of what they did last year. I'm guessing that something, namely the statement of the break points, didn't get updated when they changed the practice.

 

[Pinehawk]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
I hope the state looks at adding a 4th class soon. I don’t know if the numbers work out well. But, the enrollment number differences within classes are substantial. And the sport is growing with more schools adding teams.

 

[rc1963]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
I hope the state looks at adding a 4th class soon. I don’t know if the numbers work out well. But, the enrollment number differences within classes are substantial. And the sport is growing with more schools adding teams.

I looked at those numbers last year, spurred on by a interest that a few new programs had started up (West Branch, Cascade and Clayton Ridge.) There has been growth, but not exactly the meteoric. According to what VB has for this year, there should be 169 "Active" programs (I'm assuming the 2 historically list but inactive programs will continue to be inactive) that's up from 164 last year, up from 148 in 2016-17. That may not all be final in VB - it seems like some of the historical coops aren't in the list yet

So, the big thing in adding a class is how it works out for substates. With 168,, you could have 42 in a class and assuming 8 substate brackets, you'd give 6 teams per class first round byes (so with 169, one class would only grant byes to 5 teams). That doesn't radically change the landscape.

Doing that and making a new 4A class of the biggest, would put the cutoff between Indianola and Waterloo East. Most notably is would drop North Scott to the top of the new 3A. 3A would cutoff at Humboldt, Making Grinnell the largest in the new 2A. 2A would cutoff at Des Moines Christian (I believe) That would leave Greene County and Waterloo Columbus in the new 2A and push Des Moines Christian, Beckman, Regina Down into the new 1A. Not really sure what that would accomplish toward giving more schools opportunity, other than it would create another class, and another 8 teams going to state, somewhere, somehow. If you follow the 48 per class model, we'd have to get up to 192 to justify another class. Considering we grew 20 in the last 5 years, at that rate it'd take another 6 years, assuming there are still schools who would want to start programs. The state has shown their willingness to expand the number in classes, so I really don't see a motivating factor for them to grow a class.

 

[Pinehawk]

Appreciate that breakdown. My thinking is that when a school adds the sport, it will likely be a smaller school.
That new program then has to compete in the same class with a team like, for example, Solon. Which competes as 3A in football and has a BEDS count 2-4x of many of the schools it competes against in Class 1A soccer.
The chances for a new program, or a smaller school, to really compete well and have success with that significant of enrollment difference is a significant disadvantage.

 

[rc1963]

That's a really good point. Creating a more attractive environment to grow the small schools involvement would be a good thing to support.

So, that makes me wonder how the class density stack up with other sports

Team sports
Soccer - 167 programs 3 Classes (56/class if evenly distributed)
Baseball - 338 Programs 4 classes (85/class)
Football - 332 Programs - 7 Classes (47/class)
Basketball - 355 Programs 4 classes (89/class)

Individual sports
Wrestling 280 Programs - 3 Classes
Tennis - 108 Programs - 2 classes
Track - 349 Programs - 4 classes
Golf - 265 Programs 3 classes


So, that really makes those decisions foggier. I suppose it comes down to what's needed to spur involvement. Baseball has historical groundswell. Communities are going to have a baseball program come hell or high water. Basketball is easier to field a team with smaller numbers. Football, well, there was the split off for 8 Man and then I think the recent addition of 5A was based on the perception that there was disparity between the largest and smallest of 4A. I don't really think that any of those thoughts makes a clear argument for or against more classes for soccer. I think on the surface, your comment about making a playing field that's friendlier to emerging teams makes sense.

 

[rc1963]

Update - the Preliminary classes have been released

Solon did move up to 2A
MOC moved up to 2A
West Burl/ND remains in 1A (they make the 6th largest school/coop) in 1A

So, in comparison to my original analysis, it would appear that maybe there are more coops higher in the list (sorry, I didn't keep the old source data to do a new analysis)

Out of 172 Programs competing in all classes - 38 of them involve a coop agreement. involving 43 coop'd schools

So if those weren't coop'd (and several of them look like they are sizeable enough to compete on their own) there would be more programs total and the argument for another class becomes more profound. It seems like th answer has found itself in coop agreements

 

[privateer13]

I really struggle with a school who competes with larger 3a and up schools in almost every other sport able to compete against the smallest schools for a title. Coop schools don't have an advantage other than letting a school send players to compete in a sport. Combing enrollment in that case makes no sense.

 

[Pinehawk]

There are co-op agreements where both schools already have a larger enrollment than other single school teams in their class. Yet, after combining, they still remain a 1A team.
They could, and should, field their own teams. But, why would they I guess? They are much more competitive when they combine.

 

[rc1963]

There are co-op agreements where both schools already have a larger enrollment than other single school teams in their class. Yet, after combining, they still remain a 1A team.
They could, and should, field their own teams. But, why would they I guess? They are much more competitive when they combine.

Regina and West Branch could coop and still be 1A - what do you think about that marriage ? LOL

I think the spirit of coop was to give kids a chance to play who wouldn't otherwise have the opportunity to.

There are 18 schools with CBEDS numbers greater than 150 playing in Coop agreements. So what is it about a school that size that's preventing them from offering their own team? Obviously size isn't the only factor. I don't think any program coops because they like it, or that they perceive an advantage that way. I think they truly believe they can't field a competitive team at their school. Everyone would rather have their own school teams, with their own identity. So, what motivates a school with a 200+ CBEDS number (and there are several) from being able to maintain a team of their own? Some of these schools have successful programs in other sports. So, it's not school/parent support for sports. Is it BECAUSE of their success in other sports? (i.e. they have a successful baseball program that draws kids that could be playing soccer? There are 3 programs that have started new in the last 3 years that have less than 175 CBEDS. What's different in the approach of these "little engines who could?"

 

[privateer13]

I believe some schools and coaches in those school don't have a high opinion of soccer and hold sway. Those schools may have a larger population but would only send a few players in the coop. For instance there is a school in or area whose football coach has indicated that he doesn't like his players playing soccer and pushes them to track. There are kids in his school who want to play but that number is very small not enough to have a program. They coop but the receiving school get little participation.

 

[Pinehawk]

Maybe there should be a maximum BEDS number, that if you exceed it, you cannot coop with another team.
For example, if your school BEDS count is higher than the average BEDS count in the class, then you must field your own team.
The IHSAA could give those teams a couple of years to transition to their own team, or accept waivers if needed, due to facility issues or other legitimate obstacles.

 

[rc1963]

So, kind of like the rules for 8 player football?

Ok, so you knew that would send me into data analysis mode...

If you deconstruct the program list, it takes the master list from 172 competing programs to 228 schools interested in participating (because they are either participating already, or they're part of a coop)

7 schools that are currently 2A, because coops have made larger 2As and thus pushed them down into 1A, would revert to 1A under the 48/56 model. That leaves you with a whopping 128 schools that would either have to compete at 1A or coop (your argument for an additional class starts to look more profound

If you applied the "Can't coop if your CBEDS is greater than the average (of the new super huge 1A)" rule, that would result in 19 schools being disallowed cooping. Some of those schools, I recognize as having competed previously without cooping). I'm sure some of these are challenges because of tradition, some might have budgetary concerns of paying an additional coach, so I guess the case for waivers becomes more interesting.

This would also mean that 37 schools currently cooping would be allowed to continue (which of course skews the break points again if they coop with a 2A or 3A)

This also points out that 37 of the 56 school cooping with a bigger school (there are a couple cases where it actually goes the other way around with the host program identifier) probably really need to coop to exist.

Not sure that really resolves anything, but it is interesting.

 

[Pinehawk]

That was an awesome breakdown of the details. Great post.

 

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