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Association denies coaches Association proposal

Interesting, thanks for posting the link.

Everyone has an opinion on this I'm sure. No reason to change things unless there is a solid reason for change. I would like to see the playoffs stay with 16 teams and a 9 game regular season schedule.
Glad they threw out the 32 & 9 and 6 days between playoff games....that's not good for the athletes. Don't like the idea of 8 regular season games either, that's taking away playing opportunities for kids on teams that don't make the playoffs.

Keep it at 16 & 9 or go to 32 & 9 and start games on week 0 when most teams are playing a scrimmage. I believe that's what bordering states like Wisconsin and Minnesota do.
 
I have to disagree with you on it not being good for athletes. The proposal the coaches association also called for no practices in full pads, shoulder pads and helmets only. To me this combination is just as safe if not safer then a full week between games.

I really think what it came down to was the fact that the state knew that if the title games and semifinal games were on weekdays then that would be a huge hit to their revenue.

I would like to see the proposal that was presented with 32/24 teams and a nine game schedule.

I know that people feel that it will be watered down, but what about the #4 seeds who have made the dome? Also then why not make it so that only 16 teams make the postseason in basketball and baseball?
 
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I have to disagree with you on it not being good for athletes. The proposal the coaches association also called for no practices in full pads, shoulder pads and helmets only. To me this combination is just as safe if not safer then a full week between games.

I really think what it came down to was the fact that the state knew that if the title games and semifinal games were on weekdays then that would be a huge hit to their revenue.

I would like to see the proposal that was presented with 32/24 teams and a nine game schedule.

I know that people feel that it will be watered down, but what about the #4 seeds who have made the dome? Also then why not make it so that only 16 teams make the postseason in basketball and baseball?

What people always forget is we are already playing on 6 days rest as some teams play on Thursday nights and the state semi and finals are also on 6 days rest. What about the smaller schools who play JV games on Monday or Thursday nights then play on Friday night as a lot do for numbers standpoint as you can play a total of 14 games in a season not counting post season. I don't know why people think 32 is watered down.
 
I have to disagree with you on it not being good for athletes. The proposal the coaches association also called for no practices in full pads, shoulder pads and helmets only. To me this combination is just as safe if not safer then a full week between games.

I really think what it came down to was the fact that the state knew that if the title games and semifinal games were on weekdays then that would be a huge hit to their revenue.

I would like to see the proposal that was presented with 32/24 teams and a nine game schedule.

I know that people feel that it will be watered down, but what about the #4 seeds who have made the dome? Also then why not make it so that only 16 teams make the postseason in basketball and baseball?

PNation I respect your opinion. When you talk about #4 seeds making the dome, are you referring to #4 overall seeds out of the 16 that make playoffs, or the #4 seed out of a particular district? Have there been several teams that placed 4th in their district make it all the way to the semifinals (Dome)?

Football requires more recovery time than basketball and baseball, but I also have no problem with 16 making the postseason in basketball and baseball,
 
4-seed Results
2008
- 3-45 in first round; 0-3 in second round
2009 - 4-44 in first round; 1-3 in second round; Pella made the finals
2010 - 5-43 in first round; 1-4 in second round; Urbandale made the quarters
2011 - 3-45 in first round; 0-3 in second round
2012 - 1-47 in first round; 0-1 in second round
2013 - 1-47 in first round; 0-1 in second round
2014 - 3-45 in first round; 0-3 in second round
2015 - 4-44 in first round; 0-4 in second round

TOTAL - 24-360 in first round (.063); 2-22 in second round
 
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3-seed Results
2008
- 17-31 in first round; 4-13 in second round; Sumner-Fredericksburg, Alta, CR-Bayard and East Union made the quarters
2009 - 16-32 in first round; 1-15 in second round; Graettinger-Terril made the quarters
2010 - 15-33 in first round; 3-12 in second round; CR Kennedy and West Hancock made the quarters; Dike-NH made the finals
2011 - 15-33 in first round; 5-10 in second round; CR Washington, Clarion-Goldfield, Bedford, and Janesville made the quarters; Harlan made the semis
2012 - 17-31 in first round; 5-12 in second round; CR Prairie, Lewis Central, Central Clinton, and Waukon made the quarters; Hinton made the finals
2013 - 16-32 in first round; 2-14 in second round; Grinnell and Wayne made the quarters
2014 - 14-34 in first round; 4-10 in second round; New Hampton, Central Decatur, and Earlham made the quarters; Denver made the semis
2015 - 15-33 in first round; 6-9 in second round; Lewis Central, Decorah, Lynnville-Sully, Colo-Nesco, West Bend-Mallard, and East Mills made the quarters

TOTAL - 125-259 in first round (.325); 30-95 in second round (.240); 4-26 in the quarters (.133); 2-2 in the semis; 0-2 in the finals
 
The only way I see if you keep it at 16. To make the lower guys happy in 4a is to 5a. or you even up the classes with teams and you have 16 teams make it. That's an all you could do. Or are going to be stuck in same cycle and people will get tried of it.
 
The correct answer is to move to a 24 team playoff like the FCS successfully does.

"But but but......"

No, that is the correct answer. Now deal with it. You're welcome.

And yes, I know some of you are STILL gonna reply to tell me why a 24 team playoff won't work, because you can't help yourselves. ;)
 
I was also thinking about 2016-17 when a few of the #3s that made it as a wildcard made the dome. Union, Williamsburg, and Glenwood I remember for sure. Yes, these teams made a 16 field, but were a #3 in their district.
 
I would do the 24 but the top two make in each district make it.. Really it all depends on 4a how many schools they have in that class.
 
First lets get a few facts straight, #1 is week 0 playing will not happen because the state legislature not the IAHSAA or coaches assoc will not allow it because it will interfere with the state fair and take away from that by starting a week earlier. # 2 the season cant be extended like other states because of the Dome and UNI football time frame unless we were to move the games outside. The concern about safety and time between games makes no sense either as right now the semi finals and finals are played on 6 days rest and some schools play regular season games on Thursdays witch is 6 days rest. So basically the only way to get to 32 teams is to play an 8 game sched with week 9 being the 1st round and all playoff games would be on friday nights. If said teams that dont make the playoffs want to find a team comparable to play they still could because years ago that how they did it. As far as 4A they will most likley stay at 16 teams. The case for 24 teams like some have asked for, how many of you are coaches because the majority of coaches in HS dont want a 1st round bye as they would rather play and not sit around for 2 weeks as that kills momentum. What 32 teams will do is take the district champs and the rest at large to get the best teams in and help teams that are in loaded districts over weaker districts. You know as well as I do that some districts 3 or even 4th best team would win other districts but may not make the playoffs with only 16 teams. Here is my prediction, the state will go 8 -32 in all classes but 4A who will stay at 16 for the next 2 years then the following rotation as they have more time is you will see big changes in classifications that will take into effect social economics and how beds are calculated.
 
False; # 2 is not due to the timeframe of UNI and the Dome!! UNI is more than willing to try and make that work as they have expressed to the IFCA in previous communication. The reason they cant go into thanksgiving break is because the IHSAA and its board of control dont want to lose their 10 day vacation... that is the truth! Every other state makes it work, even playing in more luxurious NFL sites.

4A will go to 24 teams with district winner receiving a bye. All other to 8 game regular season with 32. District champions get in with RPI used for remainder of qualifiers...
 
This year was literally the latest Week 1 could possibly be on the calendar (since Thanksgiving was November 28, the latest possible date, championship games were November 21-22). In 2018 Thanksgiving was the earliest it could possibly be, making the championship games November 15-16, meaning Week 1 was August 24 and Week 0 August 17, which definitely was during the state fair.

It's all about the calendar and where the 4th Thursday in November falls - somewhere between November 22 and November 28. We got both extremes in the past two years.
 
False; # 2 is not due to the timeframe of UNI and the Dome!! UNI is more than willing to try and make that work as they have expressed to the IFCA in previous communication. The reason they cant go into thanksgiving break is because the IHSAA and its board of control dont want to lose their 10 day vacation... that is the truth! Every other state makes it work, even playing in more luxurious NFL sites.

4A will go to 24 teams with district winner receiving a bye. All other to 8 game regular season with 32. District champions get in with RPI used for remainder of qualifiers...

I'd still like a cite for this. My information (which has been as a media person covering the playoffs for the past 10 years, although I do admit I don't have this solidly sourced) has always been that UNI didn't want to give up use of the Dome during Thanksgiving because of the FCS playoffs.

I admit I could have been told wrong and that's bad information, but I'd like to see whatever communication UNI gave to the IFCA/IHSAA saying they'd be willing to allow high school games in the Dome that week.
 
This is the situation as I understand it, over the past 10+ years:

* The IHSAA is unwilling to have championships any later than the week before Thanksgiving. Whether that's due to UNI restrictions or the IHSAA calendar, that's the drop-dead end of the football season.

* The only way to have 9 regular season games plus 5 playoff rounds (32 qualifiers) would be to start Week 0, or else compress the playoff schedule as they used to do. I can't imagine the state ever going back to the compressed schedule ... is Week 0 a possibility to start the season statewide? I don't know. The earliest Week 0 would be like we had in 2018, August 17; the latest would be what we had this year, August 23.

* Could you go with a Week 1 start, then 8 regular season games and 32 qualifiers/5 rounds, with the non-qualifiers finding an unscheduled game to play amongst themselves on Week 9? I believe that's possible ... I also believe a system like that was used in the past and then discarded.

* The notion of 24 qualifiers (with 8 teams getting a first-round bye) or 4A getting fewer qualifiers than the other classes is fine with me. However, the IHSAA has always been dead-set against any teams getting a playoff bye (for competitive purposes, I've been told). They'd have to change their stance radically to allow that to happen.

So any change from 16 qualifiers/4 playoff rounds would require serious changes in the IHSAA mindset - either start the season in Week 0, extend the championships into Thanksgiving week, or make Week 9 a hybrid first-round/non-qualifiers find your opponent week. Not to mention the absolute denial of the very idea of byes.
 
It's not necessarily UNI that isn't willing to have high school games the weekend after Thanksgiving, but if they are selected to host a 1st round FCS playoff game which they almost always are then the NCAA essentially takes over control of the UNI Dome 36 hours before kickoff until 2 hours after the game is over. Do the UNI people still do all the work, yes, but they have to do what the NCAA says. I will admit that this is the way that it was when I was working while in college 10+ years ago but I think it has to be the same. I think that this is the biggest reason why the Tuesday and Wednesday title game was put out there.

Also if you are wondering if UNI will always have a playoff game that weekend. Chances are probably 85% or higher every year. They always seem be good enough to make the playoffs but not get a bye, and I know that UNI has said they will always put in a bid good enough to host the 1st round. In the FCS playoffs if the game is between two unseeded teams then the hosting team is determined by how much the colleges playing are willing to pay to host.
 
I have to disagree with you on it not being good for athletes. The proposal the coaches association also called for no practices in full pads, shoulder pads and helmets only. To me this combination is just as safe if not safer then a full week between games.

I really think what it came down to was the fact that the state knew that if the title games and semifinal games were on weekdays then that would be a huge hit to their revenue.

I would like to see the proposal that was presented with 32/24 teams and a nine game schedule.

I know that people feel that it will be watered down, but what about the #4 seeds who have made the dome? Also then why not make it so that only 16 teams make the postseason in basketball and baseball?
You just aren’t getting it. You do realize that high school athletics aren’t in existence just for teams and players from playoff schools. Right? You appear to simply be looking at this from one angle and a minority one at that. The regular season should be 9 games like it’s been throughout history so all kids across the state have the full experience. Playoffs should be a reward to 16 to maintain quality of play, safety, make the regular season mean something, allow full recovery time due to a physical sport as opposed to baseball and basketball. Comparing those sports and questioning expanding football is a ridiculous comparison and argument. Some things aren’t meant to be fixed. Some of the most obvious are. But ulterior motive changes are never a good thing for what really matters in this whole equation- the student athletes
 
They haven't talk to 4a yet. the lower level 3a,2a,1a,a and 8man wants 32 team playoffs just with out week 9. Week 9 turns into the first round playoffs on Friday night until the semi final. Could we possibility see two different playoff making thing. Keep it like it is now in 4a. All other classes goes to 32 teams with a 8 week regular season. that could be possible.
 
Anonymous2002 knows what he is talking about!

Here’s what makes me nervous about an 8 game schedule...
1. For non playoff qualifiers, and ALL lower level teams (freshman, soph, JV) they lose 11% of their season. The hours athletes put in to prepare for a season throughout the winter, spring, summer, and fall are tremendous. That includes our younger players and varsity players on 3 win teams. (Making up non-qualifiers would be great but is the state going to do that? Find your own game?)

2. Revenue. Each school will lose 1 home game every two year cycle. That gate and concession revenue is counted on by schools to fund programs, not just football programs either.

The focus needs to remain on providing student-athletes with additional opportunities and to increase the number of athletes participating in this great game. Schools across the state are having a difficult time fielding competitive teams or finding games for lower level teams. The game is safer than it ever has been and the coaching in the state of Iowa is outstanding. Will these measures be enough to move the needle for the sport?
 
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Anonymous2002 knows what he is talking about!

Here’s what makes me nervous about an 8 game schedule...
1. For non playoff qualifiers, and ALL lower level teams (freshman, soph, JV) they lose 11% of their season. The hours athletes put in to prepare for a season throughout the winter, spring, summer, and fall are tremendous. That includes our younger players and varsity players on 3 win teams. (Making up non-qualifiers would be great but is the state going to do that? Find your own game?)

2. Revenue. Each school will lose 1 home game every two year cycle. That gate and concession revenue is counted on by schools to fund programs, not just football programs either.

The focus needs to remain on providing student-athletes with additional opportunities and to increase the number of athletes participating in this great game. Schools across the state are having a difficult time fielding competitive teams or finding games for lower level teams. The game is safer than it ever has been and the coaching in the state of Iowa is outstanding. Will these measures be enough to move the needle for the sport?
Finding your own game used to be the norm for week 9 a long while back. Not sure when they stopped doing it but can remember it 1990 at latest.
 
Or even don’t find your own, let the state draw those up too, I’m sure they could find time. Along with that varsity game a curtain raiser can be played for jv teams. And for the revenue point you raised, there’s a good chance that a back to back non qualifier would have a home game at least one of the times making up for that and if not, what difference will 1 game really make revenue-wise for a team?
 
Watching the news this morning the meteorologist was talking about the warm pattern that we are in, but also said that over the last 10 years or so we have tended to have a later winter, meaning that we haven't got much snow in December and the first part of January, but then have tended to get more in March and into April. I know that we had snow for Halloween in parts of the state, but then it all melted. Not trying start a debate about climate change, just talking about weather patterns.

But anyway it got me thinking about the overall calendar the boys and girls union uses and if the entire calendar needs adjusting not just the football season. More and more there are track meets being cancelled because it is too cold to run, or still having snow. I am also guessing that there will be more of a push to make baseball and softball more of a spring sport like almost every other state does it. That's something that may be tricky with kids sort of having to dual sport. But I think it is part of the reason you see the push for fall golf, so that they can make room for baseball. Or at the very least make it so it ends earlier in the summer so kids have more of a break before fall sports start again.

I think you also have to consider that the state mandates that school can't start until a later date then 10 years ago also, so I am proposing moving the entire calendar back.

Currently the calendar is set up like this for 2019 (not going into complete detailed on all sports) and this is the latest the calendar falls.

August 12th- Fall Practice Starts
August 29th/30th- First Week of Football Season
November 1st- Football Playoffs Start
November 12-15 State Volleyball
November 21-22 State Football Championships

November 11th- Girls Basketball Practice Starts
November 18- Boys Basketball/ Wrestling Practice Starts
February 20-22 State Wrestling
March 2-7 State Girls Basketball
March 9-13 State Boys Basketball

February 17th- Boys/Girls Track Practice Starts
March 16th- Other Spring Sports Practice Starts (other than girls soccer)
March 23rd- Girls Soccer Practice Starts
May 21-23- State Track
June 1-5 Boys State Soccer
June 9-12 Girls State Soccer

May 4th- Baseball Practice Starts
May 11th- Softball Practice Starts
July 20-24 State Softball
July 24- August 1 State Baseball

My Proposed Calendar
August 5th- Fall Golf Practice
August 19th- All other Fall Practice Starts
September 5/6th- Week 1 Football
November 19-22- State Volleyball
Football Playoffs
Round 1 November 7th (Thursday)
Round 2 November 13th (Wednesday)
Round 3 November 19th (Tuesday)
Round 4 November 25-27th (Monday-Wednesday)
Championships- December 5-6 (Thursday-Friday) I put a break in there for Thanksgiving. It could also be easily moved to Wednesday-Thursday if there is a UNI playoff game on that Saturday, that longer layoff allows for that.

The other thing I wouldn't mind is if schools were able to schedule when their 1st, 2nd and 3rd round games were. If schools knew that their semifinal game was on Wednesday they might go with a Friday, Friday, Thursday path. I know that the state likes having everything on the same night, but it might allow the best officiating crews to do more playoff games.

November 18th- Girls Basketball Practice Starts
November 25th- Boys Basketball/ Wrestling Practice Starts
February 26-29 State Wrestling
March 9-14 State Girls Basketball
March 16-20 State Boys Basketball

If Des Moines is hosting an NCAA event then these dates have a little wiggle room with the week between wrestling and GBB. The other thing that I would mind is the state allowing 1 competition during Christmas break for schools. I am not sure how many schools would do it, but I think that there would be some that would like that option.

February 17th- Boys/Girls Track Practice Starts (Keep this the same as most coaches already work with winter sport athletes)
March 16th- Other Spring Sports Practice Starts (other than girls soccer)
March 23rd- Girls Soccer Practice Starts
May 21-23-State Track
May 25-30 Co-Ed State Soccer (I think that there are enough venues around the metro to make this happen)

April 6- Baseball and Softball Practice Starts, only allowing for 3 practices per week for the first 3 weeks, also continue with allowing coaches contact for pitching and hitting starting during the winter.
May 4- First Playing Date
July 6-10 State Softball
July 11-18 State Baseball

I think that allowing more time for these seasons make sense with rain-outs.

Just an idea, that the unions would probably find too radical.
 
I'm wondering if we could have a "reverse playoffs" using the same point system for a game 9. So carry on with the playoffs as is after 8 games. But for the teams that don't make the playoffs, they get a single week 9 matchup with a similarly power rated team geographically close to them.

I realize this has kinks as well. Some teams may be ready to be done after 8 games, due to numbers/injuries. And getting ref crews squared away, may be difficult also.

As for who gets the home game, use the alphabet, and then in year 2, match them up, and make "you had a roadie last year" as the first choice, then reverse alphabet.

But everybody would get a 9th game, even some bad 2-6 team, who hopefully would be matched up with some other school with a low strength rating.
 
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