All known class changes
- Thread starter alexmammen
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Nobody's going to know "for sure" until the 2017-18 BEDS numbers come out. We can see the 2016-17 numbers on the IHSAA website, but they can change from year-to-year, sometimes considerably. While most BEDS changes for a school from year to year are in the single digits, or maybe up to 15, occasionally you might see of change of 30 or more ... which would play havoc with what I'm trying to list here. Not to mention the sharing agreements with smaller schools throwing a monkey wrench into trying to figure anything out ...
The 2016-17 BEDS cutoff for 42 schools was Mason City at 809. Class 4A will see 6 schools drop to 3A compared to this year (unless IC Liberty somehow becomes 4A, then it will be 7). In the area of possibly dropping are:
The 2016-17 BEDS cutoff for 42 schools was Mason City at 809. Class 4A will see 6 schools drop to 3A compared to this year (unless IC Liberty somehow becomes 4A, then it will be 7). In the area of possibly dropping are:
- Newton (653, -156)
- Western Dubuque (708, -101)
- North Scott (711, -98)
- Waterloo East (742, -67)
- Clinton (749, -60)
- Lewis Central (754, -55)
- Mason City (809, 0)
- DM Hoover (811, +2)
- Benton (341, +4)
- Nevada (338, +1)
- Gilbert (337, 0)
- Algona (337, 0)
- Vinton-Shellsburg (328, -9)
- North Polk (328, -9)
- Iowa Falls-Alden (328, -9)
- Atlantic (324, -13)
- Davenport Assumption (314, -23)
- Spirit Lake (308, -29)
- West Burlington/Notre Dame (304 combined, -33; should you add Danville, it's 457 and solidly 3A)
- West Marshall (219, +6)
- Pocahontas Area (219, +6)
- OA-BCIG (219, +6)
- Northeast Goose Lake (218, +5)
- Tipton (213, 0)
- South Hardin (213, 0)
- South Central Calhoun (209, -4)
- East Sac County (209, -4)
- Clarinda (209, -4)
- Aplington-Parkersburg (207, -6)
- Underwood (206, -7)
- East Marshall (201, -12)
- Cascade (196, -17)
Assumption's BEDS was 330 for 2015-16, then 314 for last year. Even if they go back up to 330 they'd still be solidly in the area that could drop to 2A.
Again, I dunno. Numbers change from year to year, schools share with other schools ... we don't know what we don't know.
Clarinda no longer shares with SP. I think the official BEDS puts us at 211. Looking like a move down.
At 136, Sidney would most likely be Class A. Would expect the bottom of 1A to be somewhere between 155-165...or maybe even higher with the reduction in the number of schools in each class from 4A to 1A.
Not sure if that Sidney count is correct, looking at last year enrollment(2016-2017 spread sheet), they had 52 kids in the FR class, so they'd be SO this year, JR next so the count would include them and the 2 classes below, that total is 120, they had a few big classes with the 52 being the last, then back to about 30 per class. It would seem IMO even if they picked up a kid or 2 and are over 120 next year, they'll be under 100 from then on out they'd be allowed to stay 8 player. Haven't looked for any newer enrollment numbers they are probably out there so I could be wrong.
I'm just gonna copy and paste this entire post from troutstamp1 in the Expanded Playoffs thread. It's a letter from the IHSAA to coaches and ADs - suffice it to say that the official classifications for 2018-19 will come out on January 25. And then we'll know.
Interestingly enough, it appears the 9 districts of 6 isn't a done deal, and it may still be 6 districts of 9 (kinda goes against the entire argument the state made with the change, since it was all about more non-district games). Also the playoff qualification system is still up in the air, with the possibility existing that non-district games might count towards playoffs in some way.
We'll find out in a little over a week.
(Originally posted by troutstamp1, January 12)
Here ya go, just came out this afternoon, what the coaches want and what the state wants, who do you think will win.
"AD's & Head Football Coaches-
We are now ready to disclose your preliminary classification in the sport of football for the 2018 and 2019 football seasons. These classifications will not become official until approved by the IHSAA Board of Control at their January 24th meeting.
The next step will be for you to go to the member school link on our website and click on the same link in which you verified your enrollment. The only thing different is that now there should be a classification in the box that was previously empty. There is no box for you to verify this classification if you previously submitted your approval of the enrollment numbers.
As of right now it appears we have the following number of schools in each classification:
Class 4A: 42
Class 3A: 54
Class 2A: 54
Class 1A: 54
Class A: 62
8 Player: 65
331 Varsity Football Programs
The number is down 3 from this time two years ago during the same process.
If you would like to petition to play up a class, we need that letter in writing signed by your superintendent by Tuesday, January 23rd at 5 PM. This petition would be in effect for both the 2018 and 2019 football seasons.
Regarding the number of districts in each class, that will be determined by the Board of Control at their January 24th meeting.
As of right now, with no schools dropping their programs in the near future, the district options will look like this:
Class 4A will either have 7 districts of 6 teams, or 6 districts of 7 teams.
Classes 3A, 2A, 1A will either have 9 districts of 6 teams, or 6 districts of 9 teams.
Class A will either have 8 districts with either 8 or 7 teams, or 10 districts with 6 or 7 teams.
Class 8 Player, due to the unequal amount of teams in each district, will have 7 districts with 8 teams and 1 district with 9 teams. It is quite probably that the 9 team district will need to find a Week 0 contest in order to have a complete 9 game schedule. In addition, 8 player schools will have their entire schedule created for them, including their non-district opponents without the opportunity to create a priority list.
Playoff qualification systems will be determined by the Board of Control at this meeting as well. There is the proposal by the Football Advisory Committee in which only district contests would determine qualification along with a proposal by the Iowa High School Athletic Association administrative staff that would qualify schools using all regular season contests.
Obviously, this second proposal may influence your non-district opponents. More information will follow if this proposal does pass.
The actual assignments will be posted on our website the afternoon of January 25th, after our Board of Control meeting and upon my return to the office.
I am out of the office this afternoon and on Monday, but will be in the office on Tuesday.
Further breakdowns and cutoff information will be provided next Tuesday."
Interestingly enough, it appears the 9 districts of 6 isn't a done deal, and it may still be 6 districts of 9 (kinda goes against the entire argument the state made with the change, since it was all about more non-district games). Also the playoff qualification system is still up in the air, with the possibility existing that non-district games might count towards playoffs in some way.
We'll find out in a little over a week.
(Originally posted by troutstamp1, January 12)
Here ya go, just came out this afternoon, what the coaches want and what the state wants, who do you think will win.
"AD's & Head Football Coaches-
We are now ready to disclose your preliminary classification in the sport of football for the 2018 and 2019 football seasons. These classifications will not become official until approved by the IHSAA Board of Control at their January 24th meeting.
The next step will be for you to go to the member school link on our website and click on the same link in which you verified your enrollment. The only thing different is that now there should be a classification in the box that was previously empty. There is no box for you to verify this classification if you previously submitted your approval of the enrollment numbers.
As of right now it appears we have the following number of schools in each classification:
Class 4A: 42
Class 3A: 54
Class 2A: 54
Class 1A: 54
Class A: 62
8 Player: 65
331 Varsity Football Programs
The number is down 3 from this time two years ago during the same process.
If you would like to petition to play up a class, we need that letter in writing signed by your superintendent by Tuesday, January 23rd at 5 PM. This petition would be in effect for both the 2018 and 2019 football seasons.
Regarding the number of districts in each class, that will be determined by the Board of Control at their January 24th meeting.
As of right now, with no schools dropping their programs in the near future, the district options will look like this:
Class 4A will either have 7 districts of 6 teams, or 6 districts of 7 teams.
Classes 3A, 2A, 1A will either have 9 districts of 6 teams, or 6 districts of 9 teams.
Class A will either have 8 districts with either 8 or 7 teams, or 10 districts with 6 or 7 teams.
Class 8 Player, due to the unequal amount of teams in each district, will have 7 districts with 8 teams and 1 district with 9 teams. It is quite probably that the 9 team district will need to find a Week 0 contest in order to have a complete 9 game schedule. In addition, 8 player schools will have their entire schedule created for them, including their non-district opponents without the opportunity to create a priority list.
Playoff qualification systems will be determined by the Board of Control at this meeting as well. There is the proposal by the Football Advisory Committee in which only district contests would determine qualification along with a proposal by the Iowa High School Athletic Association administrative staff that would qualify schools using all regular season contests.
Obviously, this second proposal may influence your non-district opponents. More information will follow if this proposal does pass.
The actual assignments will be posted on our website the afternoon of January 25th, after our Board of Control meeting and upon my return to the office.
I am out of the office this afternoon and on Monday, but will be in the office on Tuesday.
Further breakdowns and cutoff information will be provided next Tuesday."
6 district of 9 if staying 16 to playoffs would make it easier on selection Friday, 1 & 2 in, 4 wildcards to handle ties. Only 1 ND games isn't going to do much good for selecting wild cards. Agree totally opposite of the previous letter.
9 of 6 with 16 some #2 aren't going to be in. Fine as long as they(state) schedule competitive and count non-district games to help clarify the wildcard mud. Schedule the expected top 3 contenders of each district to play other contenders so they will have some head to head records when it comes time for wild card selection. Use at least 2 ND games for that and give them option to play some out of class close games if they chose. More ND teams you beat they better your chances at a WC.
Still don't understand why they are treating 8 player different. 10 districts, 5 with 6 teams, and 5 with 7 would meet the previous statement of allowing ND scheduling for some competitive balance. It would appear 1 & 2 will make the playoff with no WC again.
9 of 6 with 16 some #2 aren't going to be in. Fine as long as they(state) schedule competitive and count non-district games to help clarify the wildcard mud. Schedule the expected top 3 contenders of each district to play other contenders so they will have some head to head records when it comes time for wild card selection. Use at least 2 ND games for that and give them option to play some out of class close games if they chose. More ND teams you beat they better your chances at a WC.
Still don't understand why they are treating 8 player different. 10 districts, 5 with 6 teams, and 5 with 7 would meet the previous statement of allowing ND scheduling for some competitive balance. It would appear 1 & 2 will make the playoff with no WC again.
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I agree Rooster. It's an email saying we really don't know yet. And to totally throw 8 player off is going to leave some unhappy, especially if the state is assigning ND games with no priority list.
If they go 9 districts of 6 you have to think they would go with 24 or 32 playoff teams. 6 of 9 could go 16 or 24- top four are in. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
I heard the state is contemplating using some sort of RPI-style system, using all games, to determine wild cards and/or seeding.
Apparently state is very much considering using RPI system which will use all games, non-district and district, to decide playoff teams. This will have many teams trying to either play really tough or play really low.
The IHSAA makes everyone's schedules. In 8-man, they just apparently don't get to submit a Top 7 list for non-district opponents. However, even though all the other classes get to submit possible non-district opponents, the IHSAA creates ALL schedules...and yes, that is a concern for every class if they also institute this RPI system. A system for playoff qualification based on a schedule that the schools really have no control over. Red flag!
If they end up going with 6 districts of 9 in 3A/2A/1A, then this RPI thingamajig doesn't mean all that much. There'd only be one non-district game to deal with.
But as mentioned above, that would go directly against what the state said was their reasoning for changing class sizes in the first place. The IHSAA explicitly said the change was intended to increase the likelihood of nearby cross-class rivalry games, reduce travel, and bring about more non-district games. Now, if this was the purpose, that's a fine goal, and then 9 districts of 6 teams is the obvious choice, giving everybody 5 district games and 4 non-district opportunities ... but if at the same time they're going to use non-district games for playoff qualifying, what then is the incentive to play a nearby tough opponent? What's the upside for a 4A or 3A team to play someone from a smaller class, unless you were assured of a win (and would the docking of points for playing down even make that worth it)?
The original idea, as I understand it, was to make smaller districts and increase non-district opportunities, giving schools an incentive to play more nearby schools regardless of class size. If you're now going to use those non-district games to figure your playoff qualifiers, you've just removed any incentive for schools to submit nearby opponents from smaller classes on their wish list. So which is it you're trying to do, IHSAA?
And of course, as nwmsbearcat says, the state ends up creating the majority of the schedule for schools anyway (outside of two schools #1 non-district wish-list teams matching up).
But as mentioned above, that would go directly against what the state said was their reasoning for changing class sizes in the first place. The IHSAA explicitly said the change was intended to increase the likelihood of nearby cross-class rivalry games, reduce travel, and bring about more non-district games. Now, if this was the purpose, that's a fine goal, and then 9 districts of 6 teams is the obvious choice, giving everybody 5 district games and 4 non-district opportunities ... but if at the same time they're going to use non-district games for playoff qualifying, what then is the incentive to play a nearby tough opponent? What's the upside for a 4A or 3A team to play someone from a smaller class, unless you were assured of a win (and would the docking of points for playing down even make that worth it)?
The original idea, as I understand it, was to make smaller districts and increase non-district opportunities, giving schools an incentive to play more nearby schools regardless of class size. If you're now going to use those non-district games to figure your playoff qualifiers, you've just removed any incentive for schools to submit nearby opponents from smaller classes on their wish list. So which is it you're trying to do, IHSAA?
And of course, as nwmsbearcat says, the state ends up creating the majority of the schedule for schools anyway (outside of two schools #1 non-district wish-list teams matching up).
Every team you beat in Non-District play is a team you will be ahead of in the WC chase. If you don't play them you can't get ahead of them. If they use a RPI formula playing tougher teams will help your RPI.
Yeah no incentive to play up or down except for a challenge your team or just close by. But with 4 ND games 1 out of class won't matter if the state schedules the good teams against good teams with not just a sister district but with a couple districts if going to use a RPI system to get better data or more head to heads for WC selection.
Yeah no incentive to play up or down except for a challenge your team or just close by. But with 4 ND games 1 out of class won't matter if the state schedules the good teams against good teams with not just a sister district but with a couple districts if going to use a RPI system to get better data or more head to heads for WC selection.
If they decide to use all games and a rpi formula, why not go back to playing conference football and qualifying for the playoffs from that way.
Cut down on travel
Teams would have all their rivals
Bigger gates
Using all the games and a formula is no different from the old point system.
Cut down on travel
Teams would have all their rivals
Bigger gates
Using all the games and a formula is no different from the old point system.
I've not heard anything, but I'd help if asked.Are they asking for your help in developing this system, there, screwloose?
My guess would be that non-classed games wouldn't be counted in these RPI formulas.
With 42 or 54 teams per class to be evaluated, I don't know that seven, eight or nine games would be enough to get a real good cross-section as far as diversifying. The NCAA's RPI works as 25% your record, 50% your opponent's record and 25% your opponent's opponent's record. With that few of a number of games and everybody being so closely connected, everyone will be virtually within miniscule margins. It's one thing to do this in the NCAA, where the schedules vary greatly and there are 351 teams in men's basketball and over 340 in women's basketball, baseball, softball and volleyball.
I use a similar style of multiplier with the FCS Power Rating I do on College Sports Madness, which is a direct adaptation of the formulas I used to use here on Iowa Preps for 4A football. The difference is, that multiplier was/is used in conjunction with wins, losses and scoring. And FCS football also has a great deal of schedule variance with its 124 teams. Everybody coming from the same level and ony 42 or 54 entities makes for a very jumbled mess.
I think a three-tiered return to the old Point System would be better. This is something that myself and PNation have long talked about on these boards. Even using the Nebraska Point System would be a better option than this RPI venture. But I guess we'll see what happens in a week or so, right?
I know there's lots of talk in other threads about the new district alignments, but I thought I'd drop back in here and actually, you know, respond to the original question. Now that we know for certain, anyway.
DROPPING FROM 4A to 3A:
DROPPING FROM 3A to 2A:
CLIMBING FROM 1A to 2A:
DROPPING FROM 2A to 1A:
CLIMBING FROM A to 1A:
DROPPING FROM 1A to A:
A SCHOOLS CHANGING TO 8-PLAYER:
I think I got everybody. I didn't see Danville (Class A for 2016-17) listed anywhere, even in 8-player, so I assume they're sharing with somebody.
Now that we know for certain, anyway.DROPPING FROM 4A to 3A:
- Clinton
- Western Dubuque
- Lewis Central
- Newton
- North Scott
- Waterloo East
- (Iowa City Liberty will begin play as a 3A school in 2018-19)
DROPPING FROM 3A to 2A:
- Algona
- Atlantic
- Benton
- Greene County
- Iowa Falls-Alden
- Nevada
- Spirit Lake
- Vinton-Shellsburg
- West Burlington/Notre Dame
CLIMBING FROM 1A to 2A:
- Des Moines Christian
- Louisa-Muscatine
- OA-BCIG
- Okoboji-Milford
- Tipton
DROPPING FROM 2A to 1A:
- Aplington Parkersburg
- Cascade
- Cherokee, Washington
- Clarinda
- Dike-New Hartford
- Dyersville Beckman
- East Marshall
- East Sac County
- Mediapolis
- Northeast Goose Lake
- Osage
- Pocahontas Area
- South Central Calhoun
- South Hardin
- Underwood
CLIMBING FROM A to 1A:
- Colfax-Mingo
- Maple Valley-Anthon-Oto
- North Butler
- North Linn
- West Sioux
DROPPING FROM 1A to A:
- AHSTW
- Alta-Aurelia
- BCLUW
- Belmond-Klemme
- Central Decatur
- Central Springs
- Clayton Ridge
- Durant
- Highland, Riverside
- Hinton
- IKM, Manning
- Logan-Magnolia
- Manson, Northwest Webster
- Maquoketa Valley
- MFL, Mar Mac
- South Winneshiek
- Tri Center, Neola
A SCHOOLS CHANGING TO 8-PLAYER:
- Gladbrook-Reinbeck
- Griswold
- Montezuma
- New London
- Rockford
- Southeast Warren
- Winfield-Mt.Union
I think I got everybody. I didn't see Danville (Class A for 2016-17) listed anywhere, even in 8-player, so I assume they're sharing with somebody.
Yeah, I imagine Liberty will be moving up to 4A for 2020 as well. As far as Danville goes, I saw in another thread that they are sharing with Mt. Pleasant for this cycle.
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