5A Rumor....

[DrainTheSwamp]

I spoke with a friend of mine (and a great source regarding things Boone-related) a few days ago. Apparently there's some consideration of creating a new class. Basically, the idea behind the new class is to take the top 36 teams in 4A and make them 5A. 3A would then be split between 4A and 3A.




Anybody else heard this?

 

[DSMan]

idk, but that would mean dowling would be borderline in enrollment between 5A and 4A.

 

[DrainTheSwamp]

They were 26th in the last BEDS report.

The schools that would drop would be:
Sioux City West
Burlington
Indianola
Fort Dodge
Des Moines Hoover
Mason City
Lewis Central
Clinton
Waterloo East
North Scott
Western Dubuque
Newton

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

They were 26th in the last BEDS report.

The schools that would drop would be:
Sioux City West
Burlington
Indianola
Fort Dodge
Des Moines Hoover
Mason City
Lewis Central
Clinton
Waterloo East
North Scott
Western Dubuque
Newton

As well they should.

 

[DSMan]

I think what should happen is that the schools should consolidate on the county level. Which means that each county would have at least one high school but that most counties in the state would have just one high school. If that was done, there would probably only be three classes in Iowa.

So for example (in Central Iowa)

Dallas County would probably have two or three high schools - one that covers the more rural parts of the county (Dallas Center, Perry, Woodward, Granger, Minburn, DeSoto, Adel, Dexter, Redfield) and one or two in the waukee area.

In Polk County, Johnston would probably take in the parts of Polk County that are zoned to Dallas Center Grimes and Woodward Granger.

Saydel would be abolished and would probably be split between DM North and Ankeny

Bondurant Farrar and North Polk would also be abolished and the area served by it now would probably go to Ankeny Centennial

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Why stop there? To heck with schools giving small towns pride and economic development. Let's build one massive high school in Des Moines and take on other States. Let's weed out the weak. Iowa Power.

Isn't.....that what Dowling is basically doing?

 

[DrainTheSwamp]

Isn't.....that what Dowling is basically doing?

This is the greatest response in the history of Iowapreps.

 

[WSC72]

I spoke with a friend of mine (and a great source regarding things Boone-related) a few days ago. Apparently there's some consideration of creating a new class. Basically, the idea behind the new class is to take the top 36 teams in 4A and make them 5A. 3A would then be split between 4A and 3A.

Anybody else heard this?

It's just that. A rumor. Not happening, at least not at this time.

 

[makelovenotwar]

Probably a rumor, but I like the idea....at least in football. I really think they could go with biggest 24 or so in football merge remaining into 3A. There is not much size difference between schools in the smaller levels. Or, to put it a different way, the enrollment differences in 4A trouble me much more than the enrollment differences in 2A or even between A and 1A.

 

[crich1]

I think the IHSAA will address the issues surrounding the smaller classes before they do anything about 4A. With games being forfeited on a weekly basis due to low numbers, they may need to consider raising the minimum enrollment for 8 man eligibility. At some point in the not too distant future, they will probably add a second 8 man class and also combine the remaining 11 man class A programs into 1A.

 

[WSC72]

I think the IAHSAA will do all they can to save A football. Reduction of number of 4A teams, sliding a handful of teams down to 3A, 2A, 1A and A will be the best option to do that.

I do not see 2 classes of 8 man in the near future. Possibly never.

 

[woodsiding]

I think what should happen is that the schools should consolidate on the county level. Which means that each county would have at least one high school but that most counties in the state would have just one high school. If that was done, there would probably only be three classes in Iowa.

There was a lot of work put into a pretty dumb post.

 

[KidSilverhair]

Probably a rumor, but I like the idea....at least in football. I really think they could go with biggest 24 or so in football merge remaining into 3A. There is not much size difference between schools in the smaller levels. Or, to put it a different way, the enrollment differences in 4A trouble me much more than the enrollment differences in 2A or even between A and 1A.

I've been hearing some rumblings from schools echoing something like this; that the biggest problem with the classes in Iowa football isn't deciding where to divide 4A and 3A, it's the huge disparity within 4A itself. Even with it being the smallest class by number of members, there's such a huge spread in size (and facilities and support and on and on) that many of the lower-enrollment 4As have little hope to ever compete.

Frankly, not even making a 5A with the top 36 would completely fix the issue - all the Des Moines public schools would still be in the top class, along with Sioux City North and Ottumwa and CBAL and some other struggling programs - but it would be thinking in sort of the right direction. It doesn't appear that size alone should be the determining factor in setting up classes. I don't know if I'm smart enough to figure out what to use instead.

 

[KidSilverhair]

I think the IHSAA will address the issues surrounding the smaller classes before they do anything about 4A. With games being forfeited on a weekly basis due to low numbers, they may need to consider raising the minimum enrollment for 8 man eligibility. At some point in the not too distant future, they will probably add a second 8 man class and also combine the remaining 11 man class A programs into 1A.

I think this is valid, too. Player numbers are shrinking, pretty much everywhere. At the 3A school I follow the varsity numbers are holding fairly steady over the past few years, but the sophomore and freshman numbers are dropping rapidly. And the rash of canceled/forfeited games due to player numbers is worse than I've ever seen.

Again, I don't know if the answer is to expand eligibility for 8-man, or to encourage sharing of athletic programs between districts, or what. But to see even recently successful programs like Starmont have to forfeit games because they just don't have enough players ... you've got to do something.

 

[paxregis]

If they were to add Class 5A to “level the field” for the lesser 4A programs, I would like to see the IHSAA adopt the M(innesota)SHSL enrollment calculation. Instead of just raw enrollment, they take demographics into account. Each school’s 9-11 population is adjusted down by 40% of their Free & Reduced Lunch recipients in those grades.

 

[warriors dad]

I think this is valid, too. Player numbers are shrinking, pretty much everywhere. At the 3A school I follow the varsity numbers are holding fairly steady over the past few years, but the sophomore and freshman numbers are dropping rapidly. And the rash of canceled/forfeited games due to player numbers is worse than I've ever seen.

Again, I don't know if the answer is to expand eligibility for 8-man, or to encourage sharing of athletic programs between districts, or what. But to see even recently successful programs like Starmont have to forfeit games because they just don't have enough players ... you've got to do something.

Sharing is the key!! Not all schools want to do it! 'collins maxwell baxter' But alot of schools with the state money situation will have no choice in the near future, and i think that is what the state wants!

 

[Hawksince73]

Here's how girls' five classes are broke out. It's not perfect but it makes sense to use it as a starting point. Some schools don't have football but do have volleyball so there will obviously need to be mods made. Maybe it works, maybe it's not worth looking at but who knows...Obviously 8 man would still be its own deal.

5 Classes: Top 40=5A, 2nd tier of 48=4A, 3rd tier of 64=3A, 4th tier of 96=2A, the rest=1A.

 

[DSMan]

There was a lot of work put into a pretty dumb post.

or you're too dumb to understand what i'm talking about. It means to consolidate on a county level similar to what a lot of southern atlantic states (VA, GA, FL) do.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Here's how girls' five classes are broke out. It's not perfect but it makes sense to use it as a starting point. Some schools don't have football but do have volleyball so there will obviously need to be mods made. Maybe it works, maybe it's not worth looking at but who knows...Obviously 8 man would still be its own deal.

5 Classes: Top 40=5A, 2nd tier of 48=4A, 3rd tier of 64=3A, 4th tier of 96=2A, the rest=1A.

4A should be 32. Then funnel them from there.

 

[ronsss]

well, i know lot of folks don,t like this idea, but i think they should get rid of 8man football, and make those towns merge with other schools in football...how many are out for 8man football, 16, 20 kids....just seems to expensive to float the bill for that many 8 man schools. . 11 man football is the stanard in college and pros, and should be in high school...the coaches in 8man football allways feel the defense is one man too short.

 

[roosterk]

I don't think helps the numbers as much as expected when schools start sharing. I checked the roster on a 8 player team that shares only football a few weeks ago, IIRC of the 22 kids, I could identify 3 that came from the traveling school, 3 I couldn't identify so at most they get 6 kids traveling 40 minutes each way for practice school to school. Do they get out of school early every day to get to practice on time? does practice not start till 4:30, over at 6:30, back to home school by 7:20, then still have to drive home.

I loved playing football but not sure I would have been willing to do that or that my parents would have allowed it.

 

[EHS1505]

If they were to add Class 5A to “level the field” for the lesser 4A programs, I would like to see the IHSAA adopt the M(innesota)SHSL enrollment calculation. Instead of just raw enrollment, they take demographics into account. Each school’s 9-11 population is adjusted down by 40% of their Free & Reduced Lunch recipients in those grades.

I ran the numbers to this a few years ago without considering an additional class. I did one at 50% FRL reduction and one at 100% FRL reduction. If I could find it again (numbers would be a little off as it was 3-4 years ago) and factored in a 32 team 5A I think you would end up with as balanced of a field at the top end as you possibly could. When factoring FRL, there are quite a few 3As that jump well above current 4As even at 50% reduction. I don't remember all of the specifics, but I remember Des Moines North was a staggering difference even at 50%. At 100% they dropped to like a class A enrollment figure.

 

[screwloose]

I ran the numbers to this a few years ago without considering an additional class. I did one at 50% FRL reduction and one at 100% FRL reduction. If I could find it again (numbers would be a little off as it was 3-4 years ago) and factored in a 32 team 5A I think you would end up with as balanced of a field at the top end as you possibly could. When factoring FRL, there are quite a few 3As that jump well above current 4As even at 50% reduction. I don't remember all of the specifics, but I remember Des Moines North was a staggering difference even at 50%. At 100% they dropped to like a class A enrollment figure.

There's got to be a delicate balance. Dropping a current 4A school too far could work in reverse. The school could start enjoying success and more kids may find the time to participate. At which point, you may have a misplaced 4A school with 50-60 kids on the sidelines against opponents with 25. Then it's an all new problem.

 

[tnobd]

I would agree with the socio economic equalizer ratio Pax is suggesting. Participation and declining enrollment have become an issue in at least a 3rd of 4A programs. Football used to be a rite of passage in these 4A programs and at all levels. I guess there are far more safer activities in the fall in public schools. At some point the IHSAA has to address the lower participation levels in high school football with either less classes or with a much smaller 4A class.

 

[EastIowaHawk]

Agree with making the top class smaller. Some of the smaller 4A schools could play a top 10 team for a hundred years and wouldn't win once as things stand now. Of course, you can just about say the same for 3A. Some programs are so solid, well-coached, have a great school culture and participation that anyone can predict the outcome of games between the haves and the have-nots with about 95%+ accuracy week in and week out. I'm not talking top vs. top, I'm talking top of 4A vs bottom of 4A and top of 3A vs bottom of 3A. Years, even decades, can go by before a bottom team will prevail and beat one of the "haves."

 

[roosterk]

Limit it to 1 class bump up or down.

 

[adambadger]

We all know that the classes and districts will get a realignment for the upcoming 2018 season due to Iowa City Liberty High School (1400 S Dubuque St, North Liberty, IA 52317) being included as it will begin its inaugural varsity season in 2018. What will happen and where will the Iowa High School Athletic Association Administrative staff place them? Does this open a new classification called 5A as people been talking on here about? Assuming they will be placed in 4A. Does this drop Newton, Western Dubuque Epworth or North Scott down a class? We will have to wait until the month of January 2018 to find out the new realignments for all classes.

 

[EHS1505]

There's got to be a delicate balance. Dropping a current 4A school too far could work in reverse. The school could start enjoying success and more kids may find the time to participate. At which point, you may have a misplaced 4A school with 50-60 kids on the sidelines against opponents with 25. Then it's an all new problem.

Agreed, wasn't suggesting that 100% FRL reduction was fair or realistic, was just stating what the data had shown. The additional class at the top would just help (but certainly not eliminate) the disparity in enrollment in 4A. Valley is 3X the size of #48 Newton. Even with a 5A though, #31 & #32 combined wouldn't equal Valley's enrollment, so it's tough to say a 5A would magically solve the enrollment disparity. You just don't see any other classes where one school is 3X the size of another school in its own class.

Crazy idea, and probably a nightmare logistically/geographically, but what about doing it like they do districts already where performance is factored? 5A/4A, BEDS sets it, but top "X" performing schools in 4A get bumped up after X years and bottom "X" performing schools in 5A get bumped down after X years. Not sure it would work as well in the lower classes where enrollment is a lot more fluid, but 5A/4A sized schools enrollment is usually pretty stable and having a class that's 10-15 kids larger or smaller doesn't do much like it does in the smaller classes.

 

[Dragon7678]

There is no truth to creating a 5A class, as an AD having attended a recent district AD Meeting there have been many ideas thrown around in terms of classifying schools but there will be no significant changes anywhere in the near future. The most you will see is a small change in the beds requirements for 8man and that will no be significant. They are not worried about 4A competitiveness their concern is the number of forfeits that are occurring in smaller classes and teams not being able to field programs. The state sent out a survey to schools to look at number of participants per grade level and the number of teams each school is fielding (Varsity, JV, 9th, etc) Don't expect anything drastic to change in the near future.

 

[screwloose]

Makes me wonder if some moment, probably much further down the road, that there may be a very small 6-player game below the 8-player level. I know they have it in a few of the mountain states and maybe one of the Dakotas.

 

[paxregis]

Makes wonder if some moment, probably much further down the road, that there may be a very small 6-player game below the 8-player level. I know they have it in a few of the mountain states and maybe one of the Dakotas.

Six-man seems to be the solution for many isolated high plains high schools, and more recently, small Christian academies in the South.

Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, North Dakota, Nebraska, New Mexico, Texas, Alabama & Florida all have sanctioned 6-player divisions. Idaho & Kansas each have several teams breaking away from their state associations to play six-man. Texas alone has 262 teams between the public league and several small private school associations.

 

[fbfan05]

The state could just adjust 4A to 32 schools, and then keep all the other classes at the numbers they are at. It would help to solve a couple of problems.
.
It would shrink the enrollment gap in class 4A.
and
It would help maintain Class A. As more small school keep dropping to 8 man, Class A is shrinking. That would drop the bottom 16 of each class to the next lowest class, thus adding 16 to class A.

So adding a 5A is really not needed, basically gaining the same and keeping all the same classes

 

[ISUChip]

Makes me wonder if some moment, probably much further down the road, that there may be a very small 6-player game below the 8-player level. I know they have it in a few of the mountain states and maybe one of the Dakotas.

It also existed in Iowa at one time.

 

[roosterk]

Need to just adjust split everyone below class 1A. 50/50. Upper 50% is class A, lower 50% is 8 player. Best for both classes. Actual BEDS number doesn't matter, just split it at the median.

 

[matodd8032]

They were 26th in the last BEDS report.

The schools that would drop would be:
Sioux City West
Burlington
Indianola
Fort Dodge
Des Moines Hoover
Mason City
Lewis Central
Clinton
Waterloo East
North Scott
Western Dubuque
Newton

Add Ottumwa and Muscatine.