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2020 Schedules

Are they going to announce the non district opponents to the schools before then? And have they made a decision on Sidney yet?
 
Everything will be the week of the 23rd. There are over 80 teams that submitted ND lists that have no matching teams, so it is going to take them a while to figure out ND schedules and opponents. Since the vast majority of teams do not want to play up a class in ND due to the RPI not being weighted this was bound to happen.
 
The RPI has certainly made it more difficult to schedule nd games. My two cents, put less percentage on winning the games and more on opponent record (strength of schedule).

I'm assuming the teams with the most trouble finding common opponents are those who are perceived to be dominant in their class, especially in their region (Don Bosco - 8, Regina/St. Ansgar/W. Hancock - A, Van Meter(maybe OABCIG this time?) - 1A, Solon - 2A, Xavier/W. Dubuque/N. Scott - 3A, Dowling/Valley - 4A) and rural schools who don't have many similar sized schools in their area except those already in district (mostly southern teams).
 
Everything will be the week of the 23rd. There are over 80 teams that submitted ND lists that have no matching teams, so it is going to take them a while to figure out ND schedules and opponents. Since the vast majority of teams do not want to play up a class in ND due to the RPI not being weighted this was bound to happen.

The point is that it shouldn't take this long. If the state didn't sit on their ass all winter this wouldn't be an issue.Yet they dropped the ball yet again, watch them screw multiple teams with this scheduling dilemma. Texas has 3 times the schools, and this was all taken care off in December. Drop the boys in Boone already and bring in new blood.
 
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The point is that it shouldn't take this long. If the state didn't sit on their ass all winter this wouldn't be an issue.Yet they dropped the ball yet again, watch them screw multiple teams with this scheduling dilemma. Texas has 3 times the schools, and this was all taken care off in December. Drop the boys in Boone already and bring in new blood.
You are absolutely right.
 
Few things over the last few posts

1. The fact that there are 80 schools with no matching schools is really surprising, most of the time coaches contact each other and set up an agreement to put each other on their lists. That number just seems high, maybe their are more schools looking to play teams out of state? IDK

2. I think that if you look at the list you have of schools that would struggle to find teams most wouldn't be the ones who struggle to find teams. West Hancock is going to play its traditional rivals like GHV, St Ansgar will play Osage. Solon can probably get WaMaC teams to play. Valley and Dowling will play each other, but I don't think that the other DSM suburb schools mind playing those two.

3. As for the Texas mention, they had their districts out the day after the Super Bowl, but that is all the UIL does. They don't set up schedules they don't make non district opponents, nothing. They don't even say what tie breakers are when it comes to making the playoffs. You often times see some schools struggle to find non district games as well, because you see some districts with 10 teams so they only need to find one non district game, while others only have 4 in their district so they need 7 non district opponents.
 
Few things over the last few posts

1. The fact that there are 80 schools with no matching schools is really surprising, most of the time coaches contact each other and set up an agreement to put each other on their lists. That number just seems high, maybe their are more schools looking to play teams out of state? IDK

2. I think that if you look at the list you have of schools that would struggle to find teams most wouldn't be the ones who struggle to find teams. West Hancock is going to play its traditional rivals like GHV, St Ansgar will play Osage. Solon can probably get WaMaC teams to play. Valley and Dowling will play each other, but I don't think that the other DSM suburb schools mind playing those two.

3. As for the Texas mention, they had their districts out the day after the Super Bowl, but that is all the UIL does. They don't set up schedules they don't make non district opponents, nothing. They don't even say what tie breakers are when it comes to making the playoffs. You often times see some schools struggle to find non district games as well, because you see some districts with 10 teams so they only need to find one non district game, while others only have 4 in their district so they need 7 non district opponents.
Because of the RPI, unless you are very confident in winning your district teams don't want to play up. It is an unnecessary risk. To be truthful you don't want anyone that could beat you if you don't have to. The school I am affiliated with was turned down by 20+ teams and we turned down several ourselves that were from a higher class. We got a couple matches but mostly you are just putting down teams you think you can beat. This RPI system has made it harder to keep rivalries if your ultimate goal is to reach the playoffs. Especially with only 16 teams per class. Wins matter more than anything else. If you don't win games it doesn't matter who you played.
 
The simple point is they messed up. On something that honestly isn't that hard. I have zero issue with the RPI. My issue is with out the RPi is weighted. You should get extra points and or a multiplier for playing up, and get a negative multiplier for playing down. thus leads to scheduling issues galore. If i am a 3A school I am scheduling good class A schools who will win their district. It makes me look good, and the system doesn't matter that they are 3 sizes smaller. yet, the boys in boone see no issue to fix it. Cause like forest momma said "you can't fix stupid"
 
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But if you do that you are assuming that all teams from a bigger class are better then a team from a smaller class, which we know isn't true.

I know that this would bring bias into play but I don't know why they don't bring a group of ADs, Media, and other Administrators to select the teams who play. They can use thing like RPI, BC Moore, etc to choose these teams.
 
But if you do that you are assuming that all teams from a bigger class are better then a team from a smaller class, which we know isn't true.

I know that this would bring bias into play but I don't know why they don't bring a group of ADs, Media, and other Administrators to select the teams who play. They can use thing like RPI, BC Moore, etc to choose these teams.

I don't disagree. Many many times the smaller school is better. But my point is when I am a small school. And other than my district teams other smalls school won't list me in their top 4-5, and will refuse to play us. The only option is to play local 3a-4a schools. Which is good competition, and sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. But when we run the risk of getting boys hurt going against larger competition all because we can't travel halfway across the state to play their should be a kicker. Or losing to a 3a-4a school should not count the same as if a class 1a school loses to a class 1a school.
 
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I don't disagree. Many many times the smaller school is better. But my point is when I am a small school. And other than my district teams other smalls school won't list me in their top 4-5, and will refuse to play us. The only option is to play local 3a-4a schools. Which is good competition, and sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. But when we run the risk of getting boys hurt going against larger competition all because we can't travel halfway across the state to play their should be a kicker. Or losing to a 3a-4a school should not count the same as if a class 1a school loses to a class 1a school.
Agree with all of that. To make the playoffs you have to win ND games, unless you win your District. I will take my chances getting in at 7-2 or 8-1 with some less competitive ND games than go 6-3 or 5-4 while playing tough ND games. The system is flawed and this scheduling problem is a direct by-product.
 
Well again, at least in 4A, depending on where you’re located will have major issues on how far you’ll need to travel for competitive ND games. The DSM metro schools have probably a half dozen upper tier schools fairly close to schedule play against. On the east coast there’s not near that number but the Chicago suburbs are about the same distance as DSM and that opens up endless opportunities but not when you fiddle fart around with the format so late and have it only good for one year! The west coast has Omaha or Sioux Falls to the north (assuming either NE or SD schools schedule out of state), point is, schools are going to have to start thinking out of the box when it comes to future scheduling...which isn’t all bad.
 
Well again, at least in 4A, depending on where you’re located will have major issues on how far you’ll need to travel for competitive ND games. The DSM metro schools have probably a half dozen upper tier schools fairly close to schedule play against. On the east coast there’s not near that number but the Chicago suburbs are about the same distance as DSM and that opens up endless opportunities but not when you fiddle fart around with the format so late and have it only good for one year! The west coast has Omaha or Sioux Falls to the north (assuming either NE or SD schools schedule out of state), point is, schools are going to have to start thinking out of the box when it comes to future scheduling...which isn’t all bad.


That would just cause way more issues. Then you have to follow nebraska, missouri, and south dakota, plus illinois football to determine how good the teams were and somehow find a way to include them into the rpi which would be way to much work.
 
That would just cause way more issues. Then you have to follow nebraska, missouri, and south dakota, plus illinois football to determine how good the teams were and somehow find a way to include them into the rpi which would be way to much work.

I believe that if you play out-of-state competition you use the opponents record and then opponents opponent is a flat .500 because it's nearly impossible to track out of state opponnent's opponent records.
 
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When you're a good program and have to find 4 non-district opponents that can get quite challenging. Teams are knocking down your door asking for a ND game when you aren't winning, but when you're a good program others avoid you like the plague since there's no incentive to play up a class or play stiff competition.
 
I don't disagree. Many many times the smaller school is better. But my point is when I am a small school. And other than my district teams other smalls school won't list me in their top 4-5, and will refuse to play us. The only option is to play local 3a-4a schools. Which is good competition, and sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. But when we run the risk of getting boys hurt going against larger competition all because we can't travel halfway across the state to play their should be a kicker. Or losing to a 3a-4a school should not count the same as if a class 1a school loses to a class 1a school.
So if you're a 1A school and you beat 2A Saydel or even 3A South Tama that should count more than beating West Sioux or OABCIG? Really?

Now an interesting idea would be to use the win/loss percentage and then multiply by the class (A = 1, 1A = 2, 2A = 3...). So for example, beating 0-9 S. Tama counts as 0, because why should you get any credit for beating them. That way, in theory beating an 8-1 1A school (.889 x 2 = 1.778) would be roughly the same as beating a 5-4 2A school (.556 x 3 = 1.668). Seems about right to me.
 
So if you're a 1A school and you beat 2A Saydel or even 3A South Tama that should count more than beating West Sioux or OABCIG? Really?

Now an interesting idea would be to use the win/loss percentage and then multiply by the class (A = 1, 1A = 2, 2A = 3...). So for example, beating 0-9 S. Tama counts as 0, because why should you get any credit for beating them. That way, in theory beating an 8-1 1A school (.889 x 2 = 1.778) would be roughly the same as beating a 5-4 2A school (.556 x 3 = 1.668). Seems about right to me.


You shoould get a kicker, you know all kickers are weighted differently right?...For ex if they went 8-1 you get a .8 kicker. where as if they went 1-8 you get a .1 kicker. but playing up still deserves a kicker yes, where as playing down you should be penalized.

Also, you are the same individual who wants to ban sideline hudl, and ball dryers because you consider it an unfair advantage haha. So your opinion is minuscule tbh
 
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You realize under that system, for every team playing up to get that bonus, there’s a larger team getting penalized for that game, right?

The old point system used to have a multiplier for playing up, and a penalty for playing down. You know what happened? Nobody played outside of their class ... the schools in lower classes would have been happy to play a larger opponent and get that bonus, but no school in their right mind would ever agree to play a smaller school and take a playoff hit even if they won. That isn’t going to be an answer.
 
You realize under that system, for every team playing up to get that bonus, there’s a larger team getting penalized for that game, right?

The old point system used to have a multiplier for playing up, and a penalty for playing down. You know what happened? Nobody played outside of their class ... the schools in lower classes would have been happy to play a larger opponent and get that bonus, but no school in their right mind would ever agree to play a smaller school and take a playoff hit even if they won. That isn’t going to be an answer.

You realize that's the point right? To take away 3A teams scheduling A teams or 4a teams scheduling 1a teams? IF they both mutually sign a document consenting to know kicker. which is an easy fix. It can take away the conflict if they both DO want to pay each other.
 
You realize that's the point right? To take away 3A teams scheduling A teams or 4a teams scheduling 1a teams? IF they both mutually sign a document consenting to know kicker. which is an easy fix. It can take away the conflict if they both DO want to pay each other.
NO* kicker....My old brain doesn't work past 4
 
You realize that's the point right? To take away 3A teams scheduling A teams or 4a teams scheduling 1a teams? IF they both mutually sign a document consenting to know kicker. which is an easy fix. It can take away the conflict if they both DO want to pay each other.

I misunderstood your point, I guess. I thought you were arguing in favor of a multiplier/penalty to make RPI better ... but yeah, if you put a penalty on big schools playing smaller schools, they won’t ever do that again.
 
It’s not that simple though. Should Decorah be punished for playing Waukon the state runner up in 2A and a natural rival, especially when the closest non district 3A school is 2 hours away? Are there schools that played the system, absolutely. But there are schools who want to play their rivals and not travel crazy distances for a non district game.
 
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It’s not that simple though. Should Decorah be punished for playing Waukon the state runner up in 2A and a natural rival, especially when the closest non district 3A school is 2 hours away? Are there schools that played the system, absolutely. But there are schools who want to play their rivals and not travel crazy distances for a non district game.

absolutely, but a case like that is where rpi woks. It will never be perfect i know, but a lot of simple fixes could be made. also, if both times signed an agreement for no kicker penalty or bonus that game it would work.
 
There’s little doubt that due to the delay in formatting and the one year term, scheduling issues have really been amplified. In past years (at least for 4A) the first 4 games were ND and then you rolled into district play, which made sense and was easier for scheduling. Not so sure this year will be similar with the “group” formatting, in fact was told top tier schools may be having issues with getting positive responses from potential opponents for ND games (due to the RPI emphasis), so the IHSAA may have a lot more input in those games (realizing they have always had the final say but took into consideration a schools preferences).
 
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A few years ago, they made the change to the RPI before schools could really understand how it would work. Now, they are realizing along with everyone else, how to work within the system they built.
But, they’ve broken it. Remember when they promoted that most all teams got their non-district schedule picks?
Now, more than ever it seems, if these reports of 80 teams with issues is true, is the State Association is making key scheduling decisions for schools. And, those schedules will be the difference for some schools being in or out of the playoffs.
 
Agreed, and at least for this year my understanding is (in the interest of keeping things “competitive”) not only are they over loading the schedules (based on perceived strength) but they are relying entirely on the RPI to determine PO entry. I still maintain, what was so wrong with the prior format?
 
Agreed, and at least for this year my understanding is (in the interest of keeping things “competitive”) not only are they over loading the schedules (based on perceived strength) but they are relying entirely on the RPI to determine PO entry. I still maintain, what was so wrong with the prior format?
4A is RPI only for playoff entry, but the rest of the classes will have a District winner and then the rest decided by RPI.
 
Since the boys in Boone are tired of hearing about the same old teams be successful they have created a system that they can have the most control as possible. 4A to me is crazy. I dont fully understand how it is going to work with the tiers. I have a question that hopefully someone smarter than I can figure out. What happens when a lower tier team has a really good season like 7-2 or 8-1 will they jump a middle or top tier team that had to play much tougher competition. In my opinion this the state trying to control the playoffs. If someone knows better about the 4A system please explain.
 
Since the boys in Boone are tired of hearing about the same old teams be successful they have created a system that they can have the most control as possible. 4A to me is crazy. I dont fully understand how it is going to work with the tiers. I have a question that hopefully someone smarter than I can figure out. What happens when a lower tier team has a really good season like 7-2 or 8-1 will they jump a middle or top tier team that had to play much tougher competition. In my opinion this the state trying to control the playoffs. If someone knows better about the 4A system please explain.

During the setup for this years groupings they used the combined rpi of the past 4 seasons. This means a couple things going forward. First, one good season is unlikely to move you into a higher seed for your grouping. Here’s the thing, if you are a lower tier team, playing other lower tier teams your RPI will at least to some degree reflect that. Time will tell but I expect a lower tier team will need to win 7+ games to qualify above a 1-2 tier team that wins 5 or so games for the playoffs.
Personally, I like what they are doing with 4A. If you are a low tier team Like dm public, a couple of the Sioux City schools, or Council Bluffs - I would be less concerned about qualifying for the playoffs and more concerned about playing competitive football games. I would rather go 7-2 and not qualify than 2-7 getting pounded by DM suburbs frequently. I think that’s what most people are missing here. There’s been a lot of give everyone a trophy or everyone qualifies talk. It’s not about low performing schools needing to qualify for the playoffs to be “fair” it’s about playing competitive games week in and week out. There is no reason for the aforementioned urban schools to be playing valley and Dowling. At the end of the day if one of the low tier teams does qualify by rpi by going 6-3 or 7-2 they probably get pounded in the first round. Is that any different than the playoffs of the past? The average point differential for the 4A first round last year was 25.88. It’s not about qualifying it’s about playing in games that if you play your best football, you can win each week.
 
I agree with your theory, but has been proven in other classes that a win is better than a loss even if that loss is to a good team. I think that the structure hurts the middle of the road team the most. I have seen it other classes and it seems as though the win always move the needle the most. Are they using the same RPI?
 
At the end of the day if one of the low tier teams does qualify by rpi by going 6-3 or 7-2 they probably get pounded in the first round. Is that any different than the playoffs of the past?

I get your reasoning but if I’m a higher tier team that has a 5-4 record (due to the IHSAA scheduling a top tier heavy schedule) and gets bumped by the 7-2 lower tier team for a PO spot...not too happy.
 
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I get your reasoning but if I’m a higher tier team that has a 5-4 record (due to the IHSAA scheduling a top tier heavy schedule) and gets bumped by the 7-2 lower tier team for a PO spot...not too happy.

Sure. Then the question becomes, how do we give everyone a competitive season and still find a way to make sure we have the best 16 in the playoffs. I don’t think what they’ve come up with is a perfect solution, I’m not sure there is one... look at the NCAA - how many people want to expand because team 5 or 6 shouldn’t have been left out. I think bcmoore is more accurate than the rpi. I also think it could be interesting to incorporate a coaches poll - it would need to be published. The only concern there is area bias. I would like to think most coaches would be honest, but that’s not always been my experience. I’ve heard plenty of stories about collusion regarding the meetings for Substate basketball and baseball.
All that said, I do believe taking into account the previous years records is a step in the right direction. I would also stick with 16 or even 8 team playoffs but I would give every single non-qualifying team a bowl game for their 10th game. Match them up with a comparative opponent. State gets a few bucks, host gets a few bucks, and everyone gets a 10th game that isn't a blow out like the 1st round of playoffs. It blows my mind when we consider decreasing the season to 8 just to add a bad 1st round of playoffs. My vote is more football, not less.
 
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Sure. Then the question becomes, how do we give everyone a competitive season and still find a way to make sure we have the best 16 in the playoffs. I don’t think what they’ve come up with is a perfect solution, I’m not sure there is one... look at the NCAA - how many people want to expand because team 5 or 6 shouldn’t have been left out. I think bcmoore is more accurate than the rpi. I also think it could be interesting to incorporate a coaches poll - it would need to be published. The only concern there is area bias. I would like to think most coaches would be honest, but that’s not always been my experience. I’ve heard plenty of stories about collusion regarding the meetings for Substate basketball and baseball.
All that said, I do believe taking into account the previous years records is a step in the right direction. I would also stick with 16 or even 8 team playoffs but I would give every single non-qualifying team a bowl game for their 10th game. Match them up with a comparative opponent. State gets a few bucks, host gets a few bucks, and everyone gets a 10th game that isn't a blow out like the 1st round of playoffs. It blows my mind when we consider decreasing the season to 8 just to add a bad 1st round of playoffs. My vote is more football, not less.
I’d agree with some of these points, had also thought about the possibility of having coaches input/poll (but they obviously couldn’t vote themselves and wouldn’t have much insight on teams they don’t play). Could involve the sports writers, since they already have rankings in their respective newspapers. And having a tenth game for teams not qualifying for PO’s is an interesting idea, although many of those schools may want to move on to their winter sport.
 
Everything will be the week of the 23rd. There are over 80 teams that submitted ND lists that have no matching teams, so it is going to take them a while to figure out ND schedules and opponents. Since the vast majority of teams do not want to play up a class in ND due to the RPI not being weighted this was bound to happen.
Out of curiosity how do you know their were over 80 teams that had no matches. You must have an inside source at the IHSAA ?
 
Out of curiosity how do you know their were over 80 teams that had no matches. You must have an inside source at the IHSAA ?
There was a Q and A session at the IFCA Clinic between coaches and IHSAA rep(s) last weekend. It was either mentioned during the meeting at a side meeting afterwards. Honestly I thought there would be more than 80.
 
There was a Q and A session at the IFCA Clinic between coaches and IHSAA rep(s) last weekend. It was either mentioned during the meeting at a side meeting afterwards. Honestly I thought there would be more than 80.

Ok as I was at that Q and A session and I don't remember that being brought up unless it was a side meeting. I know a lot of teams that maybe matched #1 but their 2, 3 and 4 were not matched exactly, meaning all the teams in their top four have them in their top 4 but just not matched exactly 1234.
 
Ok as I was at that Q and A session and I don't remember that being brought up unless it was a side meeting. I know a lot of teams that maybe matched #1 but their 2, 3 and 4 were not matched exactly, meaning all the teams in their top four have them in their top 4 but just not matched exactly 1234.
Our team has the top two matched, but couldn't get anyone else to put us in their top 4. A lot of teams said they would put us 6 or 7. What I have heard a lot of teams say is that they were getting the same thing. The schedules will get made and we will all have to live with them, but the IHSAA won't be able to say 90% of the teams in the state got at least 3 of the teams in their top 4 like they have in the past.
 
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