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Towel behind the mound: Is this legal?

G

gg2224

Freshman
May 12, 2009
212
1
18
I watched a 3A sub-state game this evening where a well known pitcher was allowed to have a large towel behind the pitcher's mound, next to the rosin bag.

He went to the towel frequently between pitches, wiping his throwing hand, both arms and glove with the towel. He especially went to the towel when he sailed a pitch or tossed it in the dirt. It nearly always made a difference in the control of his next pitch, especially his breaking stuff.

The towel was there for all pitchers to take advantage of, however, he was the only one that used it. This includes members of his own team that came in relief.

I can't believe this is legal as I've never seen it occur at any level of play. Further, it did give him a clear advantage. Yet, I can't find a single exclusionary section in the rule book to say it's illegal.

So I toss it out to the collective wisdom of the group - is field access to a pitcher's towel, in addtion to a rosin bag, legal for a pitcher to go to?

.
 
We had a game this season where a rosin was not available. I asked the ump if my pitcher could use a towel and they were ok with it, after they took a look at it. That night was so wet and humid that i think the towel ensured the safety of the hitters a little more.
 
I have no problem with it as long as it's not overly large so as to cause a distraction or possibly interfere. You see rosin bags, cleat cleaners and even a stick to clean cleats from time to time.

It would need to be directly behind the rubber on the down slope of the mound IMO.
 
From the 2012 NFHS rule book under the sectinon "Infractions by pitcher":


"NOTE: Under umpire supervision, a pitcher may dry his hands by using a finely meshed cloth bag of powerdered rosin. He may rub the ball with his bare hands to remove any extraneous coating."


In my view, because the rule book calls out a single option for a pitcher to dry his hands, all other external methods are excluded. Not to mention, this was a bath sized towel, not a hand towel. Its size and placement behind the mound could have interfered with play and/or safety.


If the current hot and humid weather pattern prevails, I believe this will become an issue in Des Moines this week. There is no way opposing coaches, with a state title on the line, will allow this player to have field access to a towel on the mound during play. As I had mentioned, there was a vast and easily dicernable difference in his ability to control his pitches when he used the towel vs the times he did not.
 
I'm not going to say where because my intent wasn't to point fingers at the player and or team specifically. Rather, my ire is with the coaches and officials who, in my opinion, made an extraordinary exception to the rules that tilted outcomes in this particular pitcher's favor.

Further, the officials/coaches collective decision will do nothing to serve this pitcher in his future endeavors in college and beyond. To be sure, NCAA-DI and MLB baseball aren't going to let this guy go all "Raphael Nadal", the way these officials did, and let him wipe down his entire being between serves/pitches.


Really, I hope my comments are much ado about nothing. I want to see this kid succeed.
 
Just because its the first time you've seen it doesn't make it illegal. If the official said it was okay then it's okay. Further more, both teams had the opportunity to use the towel to keep their hands dry. As you said, they CHOSE not to take advantage of this piece of equipment. It is not an unfair advantage if the opponent chooses not to use all tools available to him.
 
I didn't say it was illegal because I had never had seen it. I said it was illegal because there is no provision in the rules that allow for it. The rules specify a single remedy for a pitcher to dry his hands while on the field. It's called a rosin bag.

I do not believe that officials and coaches have the authority, by mutual agreement, to decide which rules they'd like to play by and which they'd prefer to ignore.
 
I don't think there is anything in the rule book about teams mutually agreeing to not play if it gets to 120 degrees, but it would make sense. Both teams were allowed to use this, you are bringing up a silly situation and not applying any common sense. All rules and rule books cannot address every single issue that can come up. They do the best they can and often make changes as new things arise, maybe this will be one of them. There is no provision in the rule book that said players can or cannot get in the box and swipe away the chalk line, but it happens. It does address that the field should be marked and gives directions on how. It says they should be in the box, but if the box doesn't exist anymore, what do you do?
 
Please pardon my exasperation, but I'm not sure how to respond.


On one hand, I want to say - 'yeah, I can totally get that argument".


On the other, I'm like, "what kind of nancy-boy, soccer mom dudes am I dealing with. I thought this was a baseball site with guys who knew baseball, respected the rules and were interested in promoting the Iowa game for Iowa kids."


With that maybe not so vailed perspective presented:


It isn't the run of the mill, middle-of-June-nobody-brought-a-rosin-bag kind of situation I have trouble with. I understand adjustments in those kind of extreme circumstances, which have been offered as valid explanations in this string, can merit some common sense changes.
However, this is tournament baseball


So I reiterate my arguement in four brief points:


1) this is tournament baseball (as previously mentioned)


2) the harder the thrower, the more advantage a dry hand can have


3) there is absolutely no provision for allowing a pitcher having field access to anything other than a rosin bag to dry his hand. (If you disagree, please site chapter and verse in the NFHS 2012 rule book.)


4) state tourney opponent coaches and officials will absolutely not allow it.

This post was edited on 7/23 7:06 PM by gg2224

This post was edited on 7/23 7:07 PM by gg2224
 
If you are so outraged by this then why are you here complaining to us and not writing a letter to Smokey in Boone?

Also, when I was working baseball this summer I worked for a school that had a device behind the mound that is used to clean mud and dirt out of cleats. I never had a problem with this, nor did any other umpire, coach, or player that was involved in a game at field. There is no provision for this in the rulebook either, but it was a good piece of equipment that never came into play.

This post was edited on 7/23 8:19 PM by smallcenter
 
J&J - I have no idea why the opposing coach allowed this.



SmallCenter - I know the device your speaking of and have seen that employed at both the college and MLB level. I don't think your example applies here as a counter arguement because it doesn't involve the extremely crucial contact surface between the pitching hand and ball. The rules have always been different for the throwing hand because of the opportunity to doctor the ball.


By the way, in the three games in DSM I've seen this week, not one towel on the field.

With 3A taking the field tomorrow, I guess I'll find if it's time for me to eat some crow.
This post was edited on 7/24 8:33 AM by gg2224
 
Originally posted by gg2224:

J&J - I have no idea why the opposing coach allowed this.


SmallCenter - I know the device your speaking of and have seen that employed at both the college and MLB level. I don't think your example applies here as a counter arguement because it doesn't involve the extremely crucial contact surface between the pitching hand and ball. The rules have always been different for the throwing hand because of the opportunity to doctor the ball.

By the way, in the three games in DSM I've seen this week, not one towel on the field.

With 3A taking the field tomorrow, I guess I'll find if it's time for me to eat some crow.
This post was edited on 7/24 8:33 AM by gg2224
Click to expand...
Well, anything that I say that doesn't support your argument you're going to tell me that it isn't applicable. It is applicable here because there is NO provision in the rulebook, which was the basis of your argument thus far. Neither the towel, or the cleat cleaner are explicitly in the rulebook as being legal, yet since you have seen the cleat cleaner before that makes it OBVIOUSLY legal in your mind. Again, I go back to your statement from your very first point. It appears that in your mind if you haven't seen it before it can't be legal.

Now let's address the doctoring of the ball you are talking about. Though there is no explicit mentioning of a towel on the playing field during a live ball, there is a VERY specific rule about doctoring/defacing the ball. Rule 6-2-1 clearly states that pitchers can't deface the ball or they are subject to immediate ejection. You said the pitcher was wiping his hand off, meaning the towel never comes in contact with the ball. So the towel is not directly able to deface the ball. Now, maybe he is hiding a foreign substance in the towel and gets a little of that when he needs it. I doubt that is the case as I think the kid is good enough on his own merits and just wants to work with a dry hand. But if a substance was suspected it is an easy check. The coach asks the umpire to run out to the mound and inspect the towel.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill. It isn't a big deal and no one is getting an unfair advantage. Both teams have access to the towel, but only one team (or player as you explained) chose to use it. Its not an advantage if both team have access.
 
So if I apply your rules logic, while the NFHS rules specify the exact size, weight, certification stamp and color of the ball to be used, it would be allowable for me to use a yellow softball because the rules don't explicitly say I can't use a yellow softball.

Obviously that's absurd.

Similarly, the rules (Rule 6, Section2, "Infractions By Pitcher") details a single, specific, external remedy for a pitcher to dry his hand when on the field. In the exact same way the ball specifications exclude all other ball options, the 'rosin bag' specification excludes all other external methods for a pitcher to dry his hand. A towel (or a blow dryer or one of those bowling ball drying fans) - they are not permitted by the rule even though they aren't explicitly called out as such.

With respect, I also disagree with the potential impact in hot and humid conditions. The harder you throw, the coefficient of friction between hand and ball becomes more important in your ability to generate velocity and maintain control. In other words, the same wet/slippery hand is going to impact a 90+mph pitcher to a higher degree than a 78 mph pitcher because the forces required to generated/control a 90 mph is higher than when throwing 78.

The game I'm referencing pitted a 90+ mph pitcher vs. a low 80's guy. This exact scenario played out. The 90+ guy needed the towel to maintain his control and velocity. The 80's guy rarely even went to the rosin bag. Did the towel create an advantage? Heck yes it did. It was visibly obvious. It allowed him to throw more strikes at his peak velocity, limit his walks and kept his pitch count down.

Would you not agree that these are all tactical advantages for his team?

One other note, while I involved 'doctoring the ball' as part of the rules discussion, I never, at any time thought, the towel was being used in any other manner than a drying medium in this game. I do not believe and saw no evidence that it was a mechanism for doctoring the ball.

I want to be clear and NOT connect this player to what is simply a theoretical discussion on doctoring rules by a couple of baseball fans.
 
From the official MLB rule book.

8.02
The pitcher shall not --
(a) (1) Bring his pitching hand in contact with his mouth or lips while in the 18 foot circle surrounding the pitching rubber. EXCEPTION: Provided it is agreed to by both managers, the umpire prior to the start of a game played in cold weather, may permit the pitcher to blow on his hand.


I don't see this "towel " issue being any different.
 
where can you get a online copy of 2012 NFHS rule book?
confused0007.r191677.gif
 
Here is an online version of the rule book:

http://www.tasobeaumont.org/uploads/6/7/9/1/6791208/2012_baseball_rules_book.pdf

I think that the umpire has the discretion to allow a towel if they feel that the person needs it to dry their hand/finger, just like the thing to clean off their spikes, etc if they determine it is needed for safety. Why WOULDN'T a coach allow a towel? Is an advantage being gained? I don't see the big deal for having a towel there.
 
Originally posted by gg2224:

So if I apply your rules logic, while the NFHS rules specify the exact size, weight, certification stamp and color of the ball to be used, it would be allowable for me to use a yellow softball because the rules don't explicitly say I can't use a yellow softball.

Obviously that's absurd.

Similarly, the rules (Rule 6, Section2, "Infractions By Pitcher") details a single, specific, external remedy for a pitcher to dry his hand when on the field. In the exact same way the ball specifications exclude all other ball options, the 'rosin bag' specification excludes all other external methods for a pitcher to dry his hand. A towel (or a blow dryer or one of those bowling ball drying fans) - they are not permitted by the rule even though they aren't explicitly called out as such.

With respect, I also disagree with the potential impact in hot and humid conditions. The harder you throw, the coefficient of friction between hand and ball becomes more important in your ability to generate velocity and maintain control. In other words, the same wet/slippery hand is going to impact a 90+mph pitcher to a higher degree than a 78 mph pitcher because the forces required to generated/control a 90 mph is higher than when throwing 78.

The game I'm referencing pitted a 90+ mph pitcher vs. a low 80's guy. This exact scenario played out. The 90+ guy needed the towel to maintain his control and velocity. The 80's guy rarely even went to the rosin bag. Did the towel create an advantage? Heck yes it did. It was visibly obvious. It allowed him to throw more strikes at his peak velocity, limit his walks and kept his pitch count down.

Would you not agree that these are all tactical advantages for his team?

One other note, while I involved 'doctoring the ball' as part of the rules discussion, I never, at any time thought, the towel was being used in any other manner than a drying medium in this game. I do not believe and saw no evidence that it was a mechanism for doctoring the ball.

I want to be clear and NOT connect this player to what is simply a theoretical discussion on doctoring rules by a couple of baseball fans.
Click to expand...
Would a yellow softball fit into those dimensions? No it wouldn't. Therefore due to it being of the wrong dimensions the softball would be illegal. Do you not think before you post? Again, if you are really wanting to know if its legal or not, e-mail Smokey in Boone and see what he has to say about it.
 
Again, with respect, I think you've made my point for me.


You've quite correctly outlined why you can't use a softball, the rules don't allow it. The rules say you can use just a baseball that meets certains specs, which by definition excludes everything else.


In the exact same way, the rules don't allow a pitcher a towel on the field to dry their hand. The rule says you can use just a rosin bag, which by definition excludes everything else.


Do you see the parallels in those two statements? These are both black and white rules in the 2012 rule book. Yet you think it's okay to suspend one and ridiculus to suspend the other. If every individual gets to arbitrarily choose to suspend rules that they find personally inconvenient, than there would be no rules.


Ultimately you end up eroding the integrity of the game, which really is what bothered me most about what I saw last week at a sub-state game. The officials should have known better. Rules aren't always perfect, but they are what define the game.


By the way, I did talk to Boone's top dawg last night at Principal Park about the towel. He felt it's not allowed and was somewhat shocked that it occured at all. He was going to look into it further.
This post was edited on 7/25 12:52 PM by gg2224
 
Smokey reported back to me that a towel is not legal for a pitcher and he will be reviewing the rule with officials. He also mentioned the coaches of the team involved had been made aware of the rule.
This post was edited on 7/31 9:29 AM by gg2224
 
So now that we have a ruling on the towel, what do people think about this ridiculous Spaulding baseball that is used. Then the state gives you like 4-6 baseballs to play districts with when some of them don't even last an inning. Hosting teams were throwing in the ball they used during the regular season. What kind of unfair advantage was that when some teams used this poorly manufactured thing called a baseball, and hosting teams used their team ball in tournament play.

It's all about $$$ in this case with the contract they got with Spaulding. Maybe they should spend a little more of the $$$ they rake in and offer the kids a quality ball to use. Did anyone else see all the problems sites had with these balls???
 
The Spalding balls have sucked since they started using them in '06??

Diamond makes 10x better of a baseball. Better feel, better quality laces, etc.
 
I agree that the Spaulding balls are crap, but I think the association has done it's deal with the devil and it can't be fixed. Amazing how a $5 million donation for the hall of pride will guarantee that your ball will be used for ALL state championships.
 
Originally posted by Leemark:

You are absolutely correct on all accounts. The Diamond should be the ball they use.
Click to expand...
The only good thing about the Spalding ball is the seams are very big, but other than that they are terrible baseballs and need to go.

I disagree about the Diamonds. Rawlings is used at all levels of professional and college baseball. I think Rawlings should be used in high school as well.
 
I know the Rawlings is a good ball, but don't have personal knowledge about it. I wouldn't have a problem with that ball either. I know that would be a HUGE step up from the current ball!!
 
when i was in high school i didnt care much for diamonds. the majority of them had seams that were raised too much and the ball felt uncomfortable at times, not to mention the blood blisters i would constantly get on my fingers from the huge seams. when i moved on to play at college, i liked the balls we used much better. the seams were not as high and the ball felt better in my hand. i also felt it was easier to get movement on my fastball with a ball that had lower seams.
 
I agree that the Rawlings are the best out there. But you have to pay "best out there" price for those balls. Diamonds are a good value with a reasonable price for schools. But again, the state will not switch because they made a deal with Spaulding and I believe they are under contract.
 
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