Without Beckman and Mount Vernon having their substate in quickstats, of all the 1A and 2A teams, only 1 team rode a pitcher every inning on their way to state and that was Roland-Story. Hovick pitched all 21 innings in that 8 day period. The DM Register talked about pitch count, I have no idea what his pitch count was for those 3 games. Since this is the only team of the 14 that have reported, it appears this is not the norm. Does this occur a lot, it wouldn't appear so since it is the only example of the 14. Historically how often does this happen? Thanks.
One Pitcher
- Thread starter Jako18
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I think it is pretty common in the lower classes for teams to ride one pitcher all the way to state. Without rain, the games are spaced enough to be able to do that. I think it tends to reward teams with a lone ace instead of a well developed staff. If I were king, I'd somehow set up that there were back to back games at the district level.
Hovick was at around 125 last night, and the two previous were less than that. The first two were on his usual rest rotation, so that is no big deal. Last night's rotation was a day earlier than usual.
Hovick was at around 125 last night, and the two previous were less than that. The first two were on his usual rest rotation, so that is no big deal. Last night's rotation was a day earlier than usual.
Well 2a is different than 1a when it comes to this since 2a goes tues-sat-tues for the Roland Story kid. 1a it is impossible to pitch every inning unless you don't go full 7 innings. They go tues-thurs-sat-tues. so that first week they can only pitch 16 innings when there is 21 total for 7 inning games. Hopefully this helps you a little on your question.
Lets put it this way. Some teams will ride a pitcher to state, but if that is all they have for pitching they will get knocked out in state.
Knowing 2A pretty well.
Beckman last year had 2-3 solid pitchers and always brings solid hitting. North Polk rode Jacob Hadaway to the Title game, but DB had solid pitching and enough hitting to beat them.
Davis County had 2 solid pitchers and had some solid hitting in 2011. Gilbert rode Joe Goodman through districts and state, but DC had much better hitting and nearly equal pitchers and they were able to squeak it out.
Solon had 1 good pitcher in Schulista and an unstoppable offense. On games when Schulista wasn't able to fully pitch the offense would step up and win it. Kuemper rode Halbur to the Title game, but Kuemper had a solid offense to go with it like Solon. However, Solon had an unstoppable offense and that allowed them to tag Halbur for some runs. Lots of solid hitting teams in this season, so most teams who rode one pitcher were knocked out early.
FDSE had two solid pitchers in Flattery and Engler, but the better hitting teams could cause some issues for them. This year was also loaded with solid hitting. FDSE knocked out the favorite Solon and went on to play offensive minded Beckman in the Title. Beckman had to use its Ace in the Semi's against Cherokee in a 1-0 win. Cherokee had now Louisville pitcher Cody Ege and he carried them to the Semi's but the offense was not very good.
I can keep going, but the point is that most of the teams that ride one pitcher get knocked out in the first round of state or sooner. Teams that are fortunate enough to ride one guy to the semi's or finals end up losing then and those pitchers are Elite and usually pro prospects.
Knowing 2A pretty well.
Beckman last year had 2-3 solid pitchers and always brings solid hitting. North Polk rode Jacob Hadaway to the Title game, but DB had solid pitching and enough hitting to beat them.
Davis County had 2 solid pitchers and had some solid hitting in 2011. Gilbert rode Joe Goodman through districts and state, but DC had much better hitting and nearly equal pitchers and they were able to squeak it out.
Solon had 1 good pitcher in Schulista and an unstoppable offense. On games when Schulista wasn't able to fully pitch the offense would step up and win it. Kuemper rode Halbur to the Title game, but Kuemper had a solid offense to go with it like Solon. However, Solon had an unstoppable offense and that allowed them to tag Halbur for some runs. Lots of solid hitting teams in this season, so most teams who rode one pitcher were knocked out early.
FDSE had two solid pitchers in Flattery and Engler, but the better hitting teams could cause some issues for them. This year was also loaded with solid hitting. FDSE knocked out the favorite Solon and went on to play offensive minded Beckman in the Title. Beckman had to use its Ace in the Semi's against Cherokee in a 1-0 win. Cherokee had now Louisville pitcher Cody Ege and he carried them to the Semi's but the offense was not very good.
I can keep going, but the point is that most of the teams that ride one pitcher get knocked out in the first round of state or sooner. Teams that are fortunate enough to ride one guy to the semi's or finals end up losing then and those pitchers are Elite and usually pro prospects.
Just something to add on here, but again.....2009 SE had a state tournament record 42 hits in their title run.
Max,
Not sure exactly what you mean by "North Polk rode Jacob Hadaway to the title game last year", but Grant Lang threw the semifinal game (and substate final for that matter) against Davis County. Hadaway threw the 7th against DC. Goodman, however, threw all but the first part of the 1st inning of the championship and threw a ton of pitches. See it way too much. I actually cheer against teams that ride one pitcher, because I want the best TEAM to win it.
Not sure exactly what you mean by "North Polk rode Jacob Hadaway to the title game last year", but Grant Lang threw the semifinal game (and substate final for that matter) against Davis County. Hadaway threw the 7th against DC. Goodman, however, threw all but the first part of the 1st inning of the championship and threw a ton of pitches. See it way too much. I actually cheer against teams that ride one pitcher, because I want the best TEAM to win it.
I really dont like the 1A tourny set up. 5 or 6 days between 1st and 2nd game? When at Carol, it was a 4 or 5 day tourny, you had to use multiple pitchers, and I think you really found out who had the best TEAM, not the 1 best pitcher. As is, pitcher can easily pitch sub-state final, 1st and 2nd game at state. I would like to see how deep a team is. Wish they would go back to 2 sites! Carol was a great, great, host
You're nitpicking when you talk about North Polk using Lang. People who watched that team know that they needed Hadaway to carry them over other top hitting teams or teams with excellent pitchers. The coaching staff was smart for using Lang as much as they could get away with, but if they seemed in jeopardy of losing Hadaway would have been put in immediately.
I remember 4-5 years ago. I went to watch the tournament and Lenox had a team that was not very good except 1 pitcher. He happened to be a freshman or sophomore at the time and was unbelievably good. Lenox had 10 guys total on the team. They rode him to the Title game where they were completely over matched by MC Newman who had Jordan Adams. That pitcher was Ethan Westphal. Those who watched Lenox know that without Westphal they probably don't win 10 games all season, but they made the state title because games were spread out enough he could pitch every game. He beat Calamus-Wheatland and 5 days later beat Kee High in a strikeout frenzy. However, on 2 days rest he got knocked around by a stacked MC Newman squad.
He transferred to Martensdale St. Mary's and led them to state titles the next 2 seasons.
The point is teams that use 1 pitcher rarely, if ever, win the state title.
Teams usually will have 1 or 2 solid to great pitchers and if they have just one they usually have an excellent offense that allows them to rest the stud a little.
I remember 4-5 years ago. I went to watch the tournament and Lenox had a team that was not very good except 1 pitcher. He happened to be a freshman or sophomore at the time and was unbelievably good. Lenox had 10 guys total on the team. They rode him to the Title game where they were completely over matched by MC Newman who had Jordan Adams. That pitcher was Ethan Westphal. Those who watched Lenox know that without Westphal they probably don't win 10 games all season, but they made the state title because games were spread out enough he could pitch every game. He beat Calamus-Wheatland and 5 days later beat Kee High in a strikeout frenzy. However, on 2 days rest he got knocked around by a stacked MC Newman squad.
He transferred to Martensdale St. Mary's and led them to state titles the next 2 seasons.
The point is teams that use 1 pitcher rarely, if ever, win the state title.
Teams usually will have 1 or 2 solid to great pitchers and if they have just one they usually have an excellent offense that allows them to rest the stud a little.
How is it nitpicking? Hadaway threw against 4 of their 6 post season opponents. Lang threw against the other 2, which were the 1st and 3rd best hitting teams (according to batting average) in class 2A. I was shocked Hadaway didn't throw the 2nd game vs. Davis County (which is why I went to the game), since they had Calvin Mathews ready to throw and Hadaway had from Saturday to Thursday to rest. Lang also threw the substate final vs. Hudson, who was the leading hitting team in 2A. Hadaway threw 4 innings on Tuesday, then on Saturday, then on Saturday at state, then on Saturday in the finals.
I totally agree with you on certain teams that ride one pitcher. I really hate the set-up and felt bad for those pitchers like Westphal and Samo, who did it in 2006 for Lenox.
I really wish the state would go back to a shorter tournament, even if it means playing the first round in 4 sites (maybe Marshalltown, Carroll, Cedar Rapids, and Des Moines) and then they can play the semis and finals in Principal Park on the days they do now.
I totally agree with you on certain teams that ride one pitcher. I really hate the set-up and felt bad for those pitchers like Westphal and Samo, who did it in 2006 for Lenox.
I really wish the state would go back to a shorter tournament, even if it means playing the first round in 4 sites (maybe Marshalltown, Carroll, Cedar Rapids, and Des Moines) and then they can play the semis and finals in Principal Park on the days they do now.
If people are worried about a team only having one pitcher carry them to state, do you worry if a 6'10 kid carries his basketball team to state or if a stud QB/RB does it also? There are a lot of teams that do not even have one solid pitcher let alone an entire staff. I guess I do not see the big deal about it. If you had a Jacob Hadaway on your staff and no one else that was very good and you are the coach, who would you try and pitch every post season game? Of course within the rules of Athletic Association.
I like the current setup better it helps to prevent it from being a sport where one player can determine the championship.
I knew Cale Henke and Hudson well. I scouted Henke since he was in 8th grade and saw do well every year but struggle to get over the hump.
I knew about Martsching and Mathews at DC and followed the success of the team.
Both of those teams had very strong hitting stats, but pitching was always the strength because of the players I mentioned. They always had impressive records because they were playing mediocre teams most of the time. I would say AP and Denver were the best teams Hudson saw most years. Teams like East Marshall, BCLUW, West Marshall, DNH, GR, GC, and so on would have 1 or 2 solid hitters, but none really had much pitching so Hudson, AP, and Denver often lit them up.
Davis County saw a few tough teams during the season, but they didn't see much. Teams like Washington, Albia, and EB would give them a few solid games during some seasons but they didn't get a lot of big time teams. Iowa Mennonite, West Branch, IC Regina would have been great opponents to face each year, but they went with the same teams and didn't see many threats until at least substate, so the hitting was always in question.
I am not saying those were not formidable teams, as I thought Hudson would make a run at some point, but the hitting stats were a little deceiving.
North Fayette had a 6"10 kid and they barely even sniffed substate let alone state. He led the state in blocks for a year or two by a lot.Originally posted by fce85:
If people are worried about a team only having one pitcher carry them to state, do you worry if a 6'10 kid carries his basketball team to state or if a stud QB/RB does it also? There are a lot of teams that do not even have one solid pitcher let alone an entire staff. I guess I do not see the big deal about it. If you had a Jacob Hadaway on your staff and no one else that was very good and you are the coach, who would you try and pitch every post season game? Of course within the rules of Athletic Association.
I don't care if a pitcher or hitter carries a team. Those type of teams rarely win state is all I was getting at.
It definitely favors 1A teams that have one great pitcher.
Personally, I think it would be interesting if they opened this first weekend for 4 games a day and knock out two classes of quarterfinals before Monday. Say something like this:
1st Friday: 1A quarterfinals (all four)
1st Saturday: 2A quarterfinals (all four)
Monday: 3A quarterfinals (all four)
Tuesday: 1A/2A semifinals
Wednesday: 4A quarterfinals (all four)
Thursday: 3A semifinals
2nd Friday: 4A semifinals
2nd Saturday: Championships
That still gives 1A pitchers a decent amount of rest, but at least it's not nearly a full week. It'll never happen though, since Thursday and Friday would be pretty light, which means less money. But it would do a better job of forcing smaller schools to use more than one pitcher, while still allowing the aces to throw in the championship.
Personally, I think it would be interesting if they opened this first weekend for 4 games a day and knock out two classes of quarterfinals before Monday. Say something like this:
1st Friday: 1A quarterfinals (all four)
1st Saturday: 2A quarterfinals (all four)
Monday: 3A quarterfinals (all four)
Tuesday: 1A/2A semifinals
Wednesday: 4A quarterfinals (all four)
Thursday: 3A semifinals
2nd Friday: 4A semifinals
2nd Saturday: Championships
That still gives 1A pitchers a decent amount of rest, but at least it's not nearly a full week. It'll never happen though, since Thursday and Friday would be pretty light, which means less money. But it would do a better job of forcing smaller schools to use more than one pitcher, while still allowing the aces to throw in the championship.
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