After watching the championship basketball game between Valley and Iowa City West the other day....I ask: Why does basketball get a 3rd place game and not baseball? Should there be one more game for each class at the state baseball tournament?
One more game at Principal Park...
- Thread starter IAHawkeyeBaseball
- Start date
Basketball has the quickest recovery time for players out of football, basketball and baseball IMO. Plus, basketball courts don't need maintained. The difference in field quality between SC East vs CR Xavier and SC East vs Johnston was noticable from the stands. Not significantly worse by any means, was very impressed with how well it held up, but you could tell there had been 27 games on it before that one. You could ease this by playing the 3rd place game at SEP or another quality facility in the DM area.
Also, the 3rd place game could get ugly depending on how pitching staffs were managed during the first 2 rounds. You don't have that issue in basketball.
Somewhat off topic, but something that has always irritated me is the softball tournament. They play out for EVERY place, but the 5th place team actually ends up with the same record as 2nd and 3rd and a better record than 4th. You could have a team that lost to the champs 1-0 in the first round and then crushes everyone else... Should be a different bracket style to determine true 3rd IMO.
Also, the 3rd place game could get ugly depending on how pitching staffs were managed during the first 2 rounds. You don't have that issue in basketball.
Somewhat off topic, but something that has always irritated me is the softball tournament. They play out for EVERY place, but the 5th place team actually ends up with the same record as 2nd and 3rd and a better record than 4th. You could have a team that lost to the champs 1-0 in the first round and then crushes everyone else... Should be a different bracket style to determine true 3rd IMO.
First off, upsets happen, so that takes care of some of the issue right there.
But interesting to think about. Perhaps a double elimination format would help solve your issue, or maybe more like with the wrestling format in that just getting to the semifinals doesn't guarantee you'll play for 3rd place at worst.
I know they use the double elimination format at the college level. Though again you do run into the problem of teams playing more games on the consolation side.
They certainly have the fields to hold more games as really those extra two diamonds are just for consolation day on Wednesdays of the state softball tournament.
The biggest issue though, would be parking. More games around the same time would mean more cars filling up the lots and traffic becoming an issue again.
Right now, the Union has a nice little set-up with their schedule spacing and there haven't been much of any parking issues in the last 2 years or so. Attendance is also steadily improving, although adding an extra class will do that.
It was nothing big. I am not connected to any particular softball program other than being a casual fan of SCE, that has just always baffled me. Your explanation makes a lot of sense and I appreciate your suggestions and would like to see them implement it. I haven't even been to the tournament in 5-6 years, unless you count going to the East vs Fort Dodge substate baseball game that was being played at the same time and site as the softball state tournament. Parking didn't seem to be too big of an issue that night, but I got there early.
They should definitely go to the wrestling style bracket in softball, IMO. Championship semi losers play in the consolation semis, while the winners play for third and the losers play for fifth. The teams that lost in the first consolation round play for 7th.
I would think they could knock out some of the consolation games on Tuesday night, when 5A is playing its first round. Seems like those tend to be the lowest-attendance games (small towns will typically show up big, but bigger schools sometimes don't see bigger crowds until the semis or even finals).
I would think they could knock out some of the consolation games on Tuesday night, when 5A is playing its first round. Seems like those tend to be the lowest-attendance games (small towns will typically show up big, but bigger schools sometimes don't see bigger crowds until the semis or even finals).
Right now I believe there's 12 games total per class. With 5 classes that 60 total games. With the new format, that's an additional 2 games per each class, so 14 per and a total of 70 games.
This would be doable (IF) they made more use of the other three diamonds, especially for the 1st round games. With 5 diamonds, I would think they could make that format work.
On this year's schedule, all of 3A and 4A 1st rd will be done by Monday, with two 5A Qtr games for the night cap. Each game is about 2 hrs apart on the schedule.
If you add the other three diamonds, you could potentially knock down 1st rd games for 4 classes, with 3 more Qtrs from another class to finish on Tuesday. Light would be the biggest issue with later games for those other 3 diamonds. Games at 5 or 5:30 run the risk of losing enough light if they were played over there as opposed to the main two diamonds. If that were not an issue, then you could finish all 5 classes in one day.
The biggest issue, though, as I mentioned earlier, is that parking would be a bear. They've got it staggered every half hour right now in order to handle the parking rushes. Adding 2 or 3 more classes of games would make for a very packed parking lot. People already whine (a lot) about having to park on the far side of that small parking lot (which is smaller than either of the ones in Cedar Falls or Des Moines for state, btw), or in between the 3 slow-pitch diamonds). Just think how much more upset they'll be when we send them to the soccer fields behind all that.....
I think that would really be the biggest issue. That and needing to adjust for potential attendance figures regarding who gets to use the other three diamonds for their 1st rd games. (Like you said, the bigger classes, especially 5A, hardly bring anyone until the semies or finals). Some of those smaller classes that draw bigger may be a little cramped if they get sent to those mini-major diamonds.
To be honest, and this is just my opinion here.....I think they need to turn that vacant field behind Yankee and the baseball field into more parking. That would solve a lot of problems.
Btw, there are rumors that Diamond 1 could be getting a face-lift (press-box, stadium seating, etc), but first they need the money to make such a project happen.
This would be doable (IF) they made more use of the other three diamonds, especially for the 1st round games. With 5 diamonds, I would think they could make that format work.
On this year's schedule, all of 3A and 4A 1st rd will be done by Monday, with two 5A Qtr games for the night cap. Each game is about 2 hrs apart on the schedule.
If you add the other three diamonds, you could potentially knock down 1st rd games for 4 classes, with 3 more Qtrs from another class to finish on Tuesday. Light would be the biggest issue with later games for those other 3 diamonds. Games at 5 or 5:30 run the risk of losing enough light if they were played over there as opposed to the main two diamonds. If that were not an issue, then you could finish all 5 classes in one day.
The biggest issue, though, as I mentioned earlier, is that parking would be a bear. They've got it staggered every half hour right now in order to handle the parking rushes. Adding 2 or 3 more classes of games would make for a very packed parking lot. People already whine (a lot) about having to park on the far side of that small parking lot (which is smaller than either of the ones in Cedar Falls or Des Moines for state, btw), or in between the 3 slow-pitch diamonds). Just think how much more upset they'll be when we send them to the soccer fields behind all that.....
I think that would really be the biggest issue. That and needing to adjust for potential attendance figures regarding who gets to use the other three diamonds for their 1st rd games. (Like you said, the bigger classes, especially 5A, hardly bring anyone until the semies or finals). Some of those smaller classes that draw bigger may be a little cramped if they get sent to those mini-major diamonds.
To be honest, and this is just my opinion here.....I think they need to turn that vacant field behind Yankee and the baseball field into more parking. That would solve a lot of problems.
Btw, there are rumors that Diamond 1 could be getting a face-lift (press-box, stadium seating, etc), but first they need the money to make such a project happen.
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