ISU.. Iowa kids...

[MitchL]

A brief opinion following their season opening duals.

Big plus... Big Moreno, KG, Weatherman

OK results... Lil Moreno

Big disappointment... Larson and Meeks

Just referring to the Iowa high school kids on the roster. Looks to be a really, really long year for the 125 and 141 guys. Hard to understand for guys in the room 2+ years. These guys need better lightweight coaching AND workout partners. The 141 was supposedly a blue chip recruit. Hard to spin these early results into anything positive, imo.

Boise and UV weren't even regarded as good tests as they had ZERO nationally ranked kids in either lineup.

 

[Saints85]

They may not win a match against Iowa, it will be ugly. With that said, enjoy the Iowa beat down of ISU. It quite possibly may be the only sport in which you beat us this year. 11-0 in the Cy-hawk series. I can live with the wrestling loss every year if we have dominating years like this. Nice hiring of an ENTIRE program of good coaches Pollard, keep it up Jamie

 

[MitchL]

Gosh I'm glad wrestling season has arrived. What a brutal football season for fans of ISU and Iowa. Iowa continues to struggle in football with perhaps the easiest schedule in program history. And ISU has a coaching staff that can't put any sort of respectable product on the field.

I know it's early... but I think Iowa will win both the MBB and WBB games this year against ISU. On a neutral court I would take ISU, but in Carver... the Hawks will prevail.

BTW: Iowa State will win at least 1-2 matches vs Iowa. Gadsen will be a big favorite and Big Moreno will be 50/50 against Moore. Barring injuries that change the lineup, I'm going about 26-6 for the Hawks.

I look forward to energetic and civil discussion this season on this forum.

Cheers!

 

[se xc1]

Ha ha Saints. The XC results were something. I like the way the ISU men are coached. Get out conservatively and move up throughout the race. MitchL I respectfully disagree about the men's bball, but I would say the women in Carver are favored. Gadsen will be the favorite, but I can see Moore on a mission and with the home crowd, I bet he beats Moreno by 4 or more. I hope I am wrong on both predictions I too hope for a civil dialogue, and I believe you have started on a positive note. I threw the towel in a few years ago and became a Hawk wrestling fan. ISU is my alma mater and favorite, but knowing they can't win the title, I cheer for Iowa too-but not during the Dual.

 

[MitchL]

I miss the days when the ISU/Iowa dual was a highly anticipated, close meeting and fans could trade friendly barbs in the days leading up to the matchup. When the outcome was in doubt and you almost always had a MAJOR upset in the match. Who can forget Osenbaugh's win over Banach, Morningstar over Paulsen, Schwab's beatdown of Hinson, and many other great moments?

Now... the only question is the margin of victory. As the clock ticks down to the end of the Jackson regime we, as fans, can only hope that a new staff brings that the fire back to Cyclone wrestling and their battles. Unfortunately it will take a few years for a new staff to develop their guys. But I have no doubt there are high quality guys that would jump at the chance to come to one of the all time great programs given the incentive.

As I view it... currently this is ISU's position. Moreno and Gadsen are high quality guys who could easily be wrestling on Saturday nite in St Louis. Then you have Hall and Weatherman that are pretty much AA locks. But from there... the dropoff is huge. Weatherspoon has potential for R12. Lil Moreno, with a good draw, could do some damage. Goettel is too inconsistent, 125/141/Hwt likely don't even qualify, and that is NOT a recipe for a top 10 finish that I hear so many ISU fans pointing towards.

The other fact keeping ISU from an improvement over last year is the teams that finished in front of them are all likely to be better as well. I have heard no objective argument to dispute what I see.

Maybe KJ overachieves as he did in the 2013 Nationals. But that appears to be a exception, not the norm.

I welcome someone to tell me where I am wrong on my predictions. But argue with facts, not hope. Like those who claim after a redshirt year, Meeks will suddenly be this stud at 141.

 

[MitchL]

Here's the follow up after the CMU match...

Mr. Meeks... Grandview is calling on Line 2!

 

[MitchL]

Here's the follow up after the MSU match...

Mr. Meeks... Grandview is still on hold. And the longer you keep them on hold, the lower the offer gets. In fact, you may have to PAY THEM to make the team!

In reading some opinions of ISU fans on other forums, there were suggestions that true freshman Boston would be a good option at 125 for THIS year over Larson. Given the results to date... the better decision would be to consider the true freshman Rodriguez wrestling @141 over Meeks. The reason this won't happen is that KJ made the MONUMENTAL mistake of giving too much scholly $$$ to JM. Benching him now is an admission of that mistake. In the end, KJ's downfall will likely be for misjudging talent and potential of that young man.

No one likes to see such a highly regarded high school talent struggle this much after 2+ years in the program. The reasons may not be crystal clear, but there seems little doubt at this point that JM is NOT a D1 talent.

Results may improve. There will be some glimmers of hope and possibly an upset victory or two for the current ISU 141, but there has been nothing to suggest he will enjoy much success in the current situation.

Many D1 kids have left for programs at a lower level. In the end... college is about earning a degree and enjoying life. John Meeks can not be enjoying the collegiate experience as it stands now.

This post was edited on 11/24 7:15 PM by MitchL
Wow!... Looks like some ISU fans must be reading my opinions and are starting to agree with my objective views. Am now seeing there is some discussion about benching 141 and replacing him with a kid that shows some promise. Wonder how RRF is taking this stuff. If KJ pulls this switch... JM won't last the season in the ISU room as his dad will blow a gasket. Maybe this is just an attempt to spice up what has now become a ho-hum dual since the Clones fall from relevance.
This post was edited on 11/26 12:09 PM by MitchL

 

[se xc1]

Anyone who doesn't agree with you that J Meeks isn't turning out the way we had hoped is an idiot. That said, why so much hate for this young man. Maybe his dad and the kid ran their mouths. So what. Let it go for heaven's sake. I may see some mouthy overweight person, but I am not going to constantly remind him of the fact. You don't like the kid or the family, WE KNOW. Geesh. You think he is the first kid to not become what we all thought they might? What have you ever accomplished, other than hide behind a name on a message board. Have a nice Thanksgiving, if you can!!!

 

[MitchL]

My dislike is for RRF since day one! He ran his mouth and spouted off from the first days that recruiting started. He made a multitude of disparaging remarks about Gable, Brands, and the entire Iowa wrestling program. I've followed high school wrestling recruiting for many years and I had never seen ANY parent or guardian do what he did.

And for what? He was working to get the maximum scholly $$$ for his son. Can't fault him for that, but he went about it in the wrong way. He set the family up for failure. He set his son up for failure. It is my sincere belief that, more than likely, young John never wanted to attend ISU, but was forced to because of the offer they got from KJ.

RRF made claims that likely were GREATLY exaggerated. He chose to dodge the top kids, nationally, in the post high school all-star events with weird claims about weight matchups and travel issues. It looks like it was more of an attempt to keep that sterling high school record from becoming blemished.

RRF made claims all summer long about injury issues. Here again... building a foundation for explaining a lack of success. I'm sure we'll here more excuses. The frosting on the cake will come if KJ benches John for a true freshman, if that happens.


So I will continue to scrutinize RRF when it is deserved. He is free to challenge my observations, but I don't expect him to. He is a hot head and a self-serving egomaniac.

 

[se xc1]

We know. Isn't that the fight for those offended? Didn't he apologize on the Iowa wrestling chat site?

 

[BCClone94]

Feel free to attack rrf for what you dislike, but you are attacking him through his kid. So basically you are trying to make him feel bad by belittling john. That is an out and out coward and being a very little person in my book. I NEVER fault a child for the actions of their parents. You do it every other breath. Reread most of your posts, you are attacking john and then saying you only dislike his fathers actions.

Man up and stop attacking high school/college kids.

 

[MitchL]

Until just recently, RRF was a lightning rod for controversy. Perhaps, no without doubt, the most outspoken parent/guardian I've ever heard speaking on behalf of a collegiate wrestler. By that strategy he opened himself and his son up to constructive criticism. Only after the on mat results became disappointing did he "tone it down".

As I posted previously, I really am beginning to doubt John wants to be at ISU. When your head and heart are in the wrong place, sometimes your practice regimen and effort start to waver. Without being in the Clone wrestling room, I don't know whether that situation exists. But it could!

I was in a long discussion last season with some ISU fans about KJ's training practices for the guys. After visiting with Clone fans in St Louis last time the NCAAs were there, they talked about all the injuries and problems that have plagued the program since KJ arrived. Now there are reports that JM may have some serious issues with health/injuries. Jackson's previous coaching duties involved working with 22+year old post collegiate wrestlers. Guys who are more physically advanced than the guys in the ISU room. Could JM be the latest casualty?

Back to this discussion. John Meeks had no business wrestling as a true freshman. Having him in the lineup unprepared served no purpose. But RRF and KJ apparently were the only two people that didn't realize this. It seems his confidence is badly damaged. If injuries are a factor, why in the heck is he out there now?

The Clowns/Clones leading the ISU wrestling program are in over their collective heads. 5-6 years into this regime and ISU has almost no chance to crack the top ten this year. It will take the perfect tourney for them to finish that high. Not happening.

Sorry if you don't like my critique. But if you've been reading my posts for any length of time... you will realize my predictions have been right WAY more than they've been wrong.

Parents and wrestlers LOVE the adulation when things are going well. But there are downsides from time to time and you take the bad with the good.

 

[BCClone94]

What I said was, attack rrf as much as you want. John wasn't, to my knowledge, ever on here saying anything. But you manage to transfer what rrf did onto his son. A parents' transgressions are not the child's. I always separate adults from kids, you feel that if a parent does wrong, their child should serve their sentence with them. There are adults that I can not stand, but have coached their children and not held any of that against them.

It is also like chewing out the receptionist/secretary for the decisions of their boss. When my secretary was tore a new one, that individual never did business with us ever again, no matter the size. I have the feeling, you don't have kids, if you do they are quite young I believe, or you would not attack a kid the way you do for what the dad said.

 

[MitchL]

It certainly appears that we agree on one thing... RRF has been his own worst enemy and has caused himself to be widely criticized for the things he has SAID and DONE since young John has entered the college world.

You can't fix stupid!

Cruising the message boards and after reading a thread on the Iowa forum... seems like our opinion of RRF is rather universal. Amazing how the actions of a parent can cause grief for the child.
This post was edited on 11/28 10:24 PM by MitchL

 

[MitchL]

Recapping Iowa vs ISU for those interested...

Iowa 28--ISU 8 SSDD. Six years into KJ's run at that dumpster fire aka ISU wrestling, and we have a 20 point dual. This was the team that many ISU fans were touting as KJ's best team, sans the talent he inherited from Cael in 2009/2010.

What a train wreck in Ames. I predicted 26-6 with the 8/2 match breakdown. Nailed the Moreno and Gadsen wins. Several relatively close matches but none where ISU really had a chance to win, merely keeping the score close.

Point 1. New 141 for ISU. I'd say there's better than a 50/50 chance Meeks' career at ISU is over. Whether it's an injury or just KJ losing patience, this train may have left the station.

Point 2. Moreno is just flat out better than Moore. I'd love to see Moreno as an NCAA champion. He is very athletic and I'm not sure there is anyone at this weight that he can't beat.

Point 3 Gadsen pinned Iowa's backup and consequently became a punk. Lost respect for him after his antics. Guess wrestling for Kevin Jackson your entire career eventually takes a toll. ISU lost a team point because of KG. If he can't control himself a little better and win with honor, I hope he flames out at Nationals.

Point 4 Some ISU fans will say the Clones kept a few matches close in a hostile environment. Having the tradition of ISU, that's really grasping at straws for something positive.

In closing... KJ HAS TO GO!

 

[screwloose]

As a casual college wrestling fan(I love the sport, but don't follow it super close), it appears to this novice observer that the Northern Iowa program is in better shape than Iowa State's.

 

[Iron Doc]

I'd say you're right. Schwab is building an empire at UNI.

 

[BCClone94]

You're wrong. I don't agree with you. I don't have an opinion because I honestly don't follow college wrestling recruiting, so I truly don't know what happened with rrf and anybody.

What I said was part of being a mature adult is not attacking and insulting a child of someone you have an issue with. If you are in high school, then its all moot.

I have no issue with a discussion, I prefer civil ones, something I don't know if I ever read from you, and will put up with attacks if not directed at kids.

 

[MitchL]

Regarding whether UNI has passed ISU in the pecking order... The UNI program is trending up since the arrival of Schwab. Recruiting has exploded in Cedar Falls and all signs point to continued success.

We know the free fall that ISU is experiencing. I fully expect UNI to dominate ISU over the next several years, with ISU winning a head to head on occasion. If they were to meet today, I might give the edge to ISU, but by the end of this year I'm not too sure. UNI had more losses to graduation than ISU did and, right now, ISU would likely finish higher at Nationals.

As some others have stated... one has to question the ISU AD's commitment to wrestling. The ISU AD has other problems to deal with at the moment given the state of the football program. To me... this is the ONLY reason KJ still has his job as head coach.


BTW: BC, if you don't follow college wrestling, your opinions aren't relevant because you don't know what you're talking about. Even though I dislike ISU/KJ/RRF, I still have the ability to think objectively. ISU fans, as a whole, aren't happy with the program. Unfortunately many seem hesitant to share their negative thoughts because they will be seen as being "bandwagon" fans. Saturday night's results were embarrassing for the program.
This post was edited on 11/30 8:35 PM by MitchL

 

[BCClone94]

Originally posted by MitchL:

Regarding whether UNI has passed ISU in the pecking order... The UNI program is trending up since the arrival of Schwab. Recruiting has exploded in Cedar Falls and all signs point to continued success.

We know the free fall that ISU is experiencing. I fully expect UNI to dominate ISU over the next several years, with ISU winning a head to head on occasion. If they were to meet today, I might give the edge to ISU, but by the end of this year I'm not too sure. UNI had more losses to graduation than ISU did and, right now, ISU would likely finish higher at Nationals.

As some others have stated... one has to question the ISU AD's commitment to wrestling. The ISU AD has other problems to deal with at the moment given the state of the football program. To me... this is the ONLY reason KJ still has his job as head coach.


BTW: BC, if you don't follow college wrestling, your opinions aren't relevant because you don't know what you're talking about. Even though I dislike ISU/KJ/RRF, I still have the ability to think objectively. ISU fans, as a whole, aren't happy with the program. Unfortunately many seem hesitant to share their negative thoughts because they will be seen as being "bandwagon" fans. Saturday night's results were embarrassing for the program.
This post was edited on 11/30 8:35 PM by MitchL

Well at least this post proves you have reading comprehension issues.

You say you want discussion, but have you noticed that most people quit posting after having a "discussion" with you. That's why most threads are you talking to yourself.

 

[MitchL]

In case you haven't noticed, which obviously you haven't, the vast majority of my predictions and observations are "spot on". Many ISU fans look thru unreasonable "cardinal and gold" glasses. Most have unwarranted expectations. Kind of a wishful thinking approach. So the fact that some discontinue the interchanges is entirely understandable when their viewpoint gets shot down.

I'm not right on everything, but those that have tried to defend ISU and KJ no longer have any bullets left in the chamber, so to speak. Some of you have attempted personal attacks against me to try and lessen my credibility. Doesn't look like that tactic has been successful.

I said five years ago that Jackson was a bad hire. I said that Cory Clark would have a better college career than John Meeks. I said ISU was no longer a top tier wrestling program. I said UNI would surpass ISU as the 2nd best program in the State. That one isn't definite yet, but it's getting closer.

Listen... I understand your frustration, and all ISU fans' frustration, with the situation in Ames. Having ISU suck this bad isn't some big plus for the Hawks. Beating ISU doesn't mean what it did back in the days of Gibbons and Douglas. When is the last time having ISU in CHA meant a packed arena? Been a while, hasn't it.

So if I have to update the IOWA/ISU/UNI results by myself... I will. No big deal!

But going by the views on this thread... some folks seem interested.

So if you are done posting here... I say... no big loss.

BTW: Just a suggestion, but if you want to have a discussion with people that think like you, go to the ISU forum and converse with Goose/Judako/Buffy/ and others about how happy they are that Larson, Hall, Rodriguez, and Weatherman didn't get majored last weekend. That's a BIG positive, I guess!
This post was edited on 12/1 2:00 PM by MitchL

 

[Iron Doc]

Why do you think Schwab is doing such a great job? The Iowa program influence? As an Iowa Normal School graduate (class of 1892), I am glad to see such progress in Cedar Falls!

 

[MitchL]

My opinion only, but Schwab is young, energetic, national recognition from his time at Iowa and his individual title, and his staff is good. His brother is perfect as the top assistant and is a very good teacher. Mark absolutely hated the administrative side of being the head guy. They make a very good 1 and 2 combo.

Doug also has many close ties to some of the top level programs within the State. And what is really impressive is he has pulled in Nationally rated recruits for the incoming recruiting class from Illinois and Georgia already.

I won't go so far to say he will threaten the Hawkeyes as the top in State school, but he has already gotten the Thomsen kid that Iowa offered so essentially he has gotten kids that Brands wanted.

The fanbase was clamoring for this kind of momentum. But in reality... he'll need to continually improve UNI's National finishes. Not sure he'll do that this year, but he's got a good base with guys like Peters and Moore

Believe me... having Schwab in CF is a nightmare brewing for Cyclone fans. They know they are in danger of falling further down the totem pole.

I hope that Iowa and UNI can restart the dual matchup soon. UNI will provide more competition for the Hawks than the school in Ames, imo.
This post was edited on 12/2 6:21 PM by MitchL

 

[Pantherclone]

As my username implies, I am a UNI and ISU fan. Love the Schwab bros, and expect them to continue to build the program up, but also respectfully disagree with your assessment of the ISU program. Looking at this weekend's results in Vegas, I am feeling better about where ISU is at, and UNI is about where I expected after losing Colon, etc. last year. For ISU, program is still not where I or most fans want it to be, but there is more talent and depth in the program today than the past few years. Will be tough to replace Mike Moreno and Kyven next year, but the rest of the lineup returns, and I am excited to see Boston, Harrington, etc. Having all 3 programs strong/respected nationally is a good thing.

 

[MitchL]

Panther... good assessment of the schools. My opinions of ISU are simply after this year, having your top two guys being seniors, ISU will take a big step backward in terms of team points at Nationals. I'm starting to think that Weatherman and lil Moreno will be the best of what the Clones have returning. I have reduced my expectations of Hall for a few reasons. He was not oversized last year at 125 but used his quickness to surpass expectations in OKC. The move to 133 is costing him against the bigger guys and his quickness is less of a factor now. He was only "ok" in the regular season last year, but had a good National tourney. Based on results this year... it looks like the regular season last year was the "real" Hall, rather than the post season. He has lost to more than one average guy already this season.

Hall is at 133 because it leaves a smaller hole at 125 than having Hall at 125 and having a huge hole at 133 in terms of team results. For his sake, I wish he was at the lower weight.

Without a doubt, this is Jackson's best team of his recruits since CS left. The previous four years have been a near disaster by anyones' standard. But I have serious doubts he can crack the top ten without Moreno AND Gadsen in the finals. Could happen, but I'd say the odds are less than 50/50. Weatherman has a good chance to AA, maybe Hall, and with a lotta luck for lil Moreno or Weatherspoon. That's not a recipe for a top ten finish.

Is that good enough to save his job? With the reduced expectations of the fans, perhaps it is. Pollard sure doesn't seem to give a crap about ISU wrestling.

 

[se xc1]

Keep ripping on Pollard:


Are Iowa fans aware of the NACDA Learfield Directors Cup? Since Gary Barta became athletic director in 2006, the University of Iowa has placed 11th, 11th, 10th, 11th, 9th, 12th, 12th and 12th in the Big Ten in the LDC point standings. Yet Barta has gone from making $295,000 a year in 2006 to nearly $500,000 annually, or an increase of approximately 35% in base salary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACDA_Directors%27_Cup

 

[cidhawkeye]

Did I miss the change from the wrestling forum board?

 

[MitchL]

Between pointing out which school is leading for the Hyvee trophy and the totality of the entire athletic program stature, ISU fans always seem to want to shift the conversation away from "A Wrestling Program" comparison. Silly me for wanting to discuss wrestling on this forum.

Listen... the absolute, only reason Pollard's name ever gets mentioned on this forum is because he doesn't give a damn about ISU's wrestling and it shows by the fact that Kevin Jackson is still the head coach.

 

[MitchL]

TO BCCLONE...

Rather than start a new thread, I gotta respond to, what maybe illustrates the epitome of stupidity, regarding a post of yours on the Clone rivals site.

Somehow he tried to imply that the success of the Hawkeye team this season is a result of the Virginia Tech kids that followed Tom Brands to Iowa City several seasons' ago. This is so utterly ridiculous that anything he posts regarding collegiate going forward should be ignored.

I can only hope he was being sarcastic, but given the substance and jealousy of the vast majority of ISU fans...I think he actually may believe it to be true. It rivals, in silliness, the claim that many ISU fans still blame Cael's exit for the continued struggles of ISU wrestling.

NEWSFLASH... the kids that followed Brands to IC are LONG gone from college eligibility and are either Olympic hopefuls or college coaches. Idiocy knows no bounds.