ADVERTISEMENT

Dahm

Aug 12, 2009
63
0
6
What are your thoughts on Dahm finally getting fired at Iowa? The bottom line is winning and he didn't. Doesn't how much you do in the community when you don't win, you are gone.I doubt they can get a really big name there.I think they should get Heller from Indiana State. He knows the state of Iowa and has recruited Iowa players to Indiana State.
 
Originally posted by acoach#5:
What are your thoughts on Dahm finally getting fired at Iowa? The bottom line is winning and he didn't. Doesn't how much you do in the community when you don't win, you are gone.I doubt they can get a really big name there.I think they should get Heller from Indiana State. He knows the state of Iowa and has recruited Iowa players to Indiana State.
He could obviously recruit, as evidenced by a number of high ranked classes (including at least two years where he had the top ranked B-10 class and top 50 nationally). But for the talent he had available, his teams were vast underacheivers on the field. I would disagree that Iowa can't get a "really big name" coach. They not only can get someone good---they HAVE to get someone good. And I think they will, as Iowa has expressed their intention to get the program up where it needs to be a number of times.
 
I definitely think they can get someone who can do a good job. There have been some good players there. Yacinich, Toole, Kenyon, Torres, and Roscetti all either showed potential or just played pretty well this year; Yacinich was apparently battling some back issues that held him back. I'd expect him to have a strong year next season. There was a lot of youth this year; I shot photos for The Daily Iowan, with an emphasis on baseball this spring. 8 players who started the majority of the games I shot were freshmen or sophomores. Kenyon and Zeutenhorst were juniors.

The big issue is starting pitching. I'm hoping guys like Matthews develop, but only Dermody had a winning record among the starters (and he tallied 7 of the team's 22 wins). With him gone (as well as Ricky Sandquist, who was the team's best reliever by a long shot), other guys need to step up in a big way. Kuebel has to bounce back after a horrendous sophomore year (2-8, 5.13 ERA). If he does that, Matthews develops, and somebody else steps up in the rotation, they might be okay.
 
I would like to see Heller get the opportunity if he is interested. He knows the state well, and he is a class act all the way.
 
Is Iowa really a better gig than Indiana State though? I'd argue it isn't. Heller has great facilities there, and he has a much better recruiting base in southern Indiana (Terre Haute is only a few hours from Tennessee, Kentucky, and short plane ride to Florida). Heller obviously has strong Iowa ties and he may want to come back, but talking with friends that have played and worked with him, he seems to enjoy ISU.
 
With Iowa looking at a new Baseball, Softball, Track complex they need to go to turf for the fields so weather doesn' hamper any games. Watching the regionals this weekend it doesn't appear to play much if any different than the grass (other than sliding).
 
Has anyone heard how the players from Iowa (Toole, Rumpf, Hedrick, Kaufman, et al) feel about the change? Also, any idea where the Iowa boys are playing summer ball?
 
se xc1.....like those Tritons do you?? I'm also a big fan of Coach P. My son just finished his 2 years their.
 
Dahm made around $100,000 last year and I believe Heller made around $75,000. Not sure with camps etc. how that figures into their income. Iowa would be a better financial situation for a coach.

I will say that Indiana State could really be viewed as a better job, for quite a few reasons.

1. Weather. Big difference between Iowa weather and S. Indiana weather. (especially with having a turf infield to work out on.) Lot's more opportunities for getting outside in the winter months in Indiana than in Iowa most years. Not to mention, spring time is much more cooperative and mild. Decided advantage for ISU.


2. MVC vs Big 10. Most years, I would take the MVC over the Big 10 competition wise. Not to mention that many of the MVC cities are generally better climate wise than the Big 10 schools are. The Big 10 adding Nebraska certainly helped in both of those aspects some but I still think the baseball in the Valley is generally better than the Big 10 most years. The weather is the big factor here to me. It's close but factor in the weather/geography and the MVC wins.

3. Location, location, location. Sure, U of Iowa is now the only D1 program in the state since UNI dropped baseball and Iowa State hasn't had it in quite a few years now. The state of Iowa, while holding it's own for a state of their size, doesn't produce a ton of D1 talent year in and year out. Indiana, on the other hand, has a pretty good talent base.

Not to mention, the Wabash Valley produces quite a few homegrown kids and ISU typically gets a player or 2 every year from basically right in town. Definite advantage for ISU here. This is a very big factor.

4. Facilities. Indiana State has better baseball facilities. From the field (sport turf vs grass), to the stadium (ISU's recent changes trump Iowa's pretty easily) . Iowa doesn't have the use of an anytime, indoor hitting facility. They are at the mercy of the football program. I haven't seen ISU's but I've seen pictures and it seems ISU has a definite advantage here.

Iowa has made some promises as of late that they will be building a new baseball and softball facility and will be building a facility for indoor practices but the money hasn't been secured for this as of yet. I would guess it will be 6-10 years before these changes would be realized.

Therefore, I have to give the nod to ISU.

5. Travel: If Iowa wants to play another D1 program, it has to travel to Minnesota, (4 1/2 hrs) Nebraska (4 1/2 hrs) or Illinois (3 3/4 hrs) Western Illinois 2 1/4 hr) Missouri (4 hours), Northwestern (3 3/4 hrs) Bradley is 2 1/4 hrs....you get the point, there just isn't as much opportunity for playing close teams. ISU has a definite advantage here as they have numerous programs within an hour and a half, quite a few under 3-4 hours and can be in the "South" in a relatively short time comparatively to escape weather. Great location from that stand point.

6. Budget. See my first paragraph on salaries. Advantage certainly goes to Iowa. In shear dollars for the program, I am guessing that Iowa has an advantage here. By how much, I am not sure. Obviously, that is a big deal. So I'll give the advantage to Iowa. In particular, if Iowa were to build a winner, they would have a much larger war chest to draw from with big time football and basketball money to draw from. Hawkeye fans are great fans when you win. If ISU wins, it's supported probably a bit more than when not but for the most part, "it is what it is". Current advantage Iowa. HUGE potential advantage Iowa. (the argument could be made that Iowa hasn't committed much of anything compared to ISU lately though when you look at the facilities.

7. Community and administrative support. Support wise, ISU has had a much bigger advantage from it's administration as evidenced by the facility upgrades and the fact that ISU will be hosting the MVC tournament next year. Prettyman has been pretty vocal about his support and shown it. Barta at Iowa? Meh....Sure, he dumped Dahm and one could argue that he is trying to support baseball.......Until you put $ where your mouth is....BS.

Indiana State's community seems to do a pretty good job of supporting baseball. Sure, it's not to the level of Wichita but it's not bad. I have to give ISU the edge here as well. I think it is somewhat like the budget situation though....If Iowa built it....they would probably come. At least probably better than what Indiana State's community would be able to do. But that's probably a guess..

So, overall, I think ISU is probably a better situation than Iowa. Heller being from Iowa would obviously be the big draw for him. Baseball isn't as popular in Iowa as it is in Indiana.

those rebuilding (or in this case, BUILDING) jobs are sometimes very intriguing. The key will be the level of comittment to facilities that Iowa is able to give. I just don't see them being able to have anything in place within 5 years. Maybe they should have extended Dahm's contract another year and got closer to getting $ for facilities and it would be more attractive. I'm kind of worried that Iowa could put themselves in a bad position here if they make the wrong hire (because they have to settle).

It sounds like they haven't even called the Iowa Western Coach. Regardless of whether you intend to hire the guy, he still deserves a call.
This post was edited on 6/5 5:54 PM by terrehawk
 
I also have to wonder if Barta is even considering contacting Gene Stephenson who was just fired from Wichita State after 36 years of building that program from absolutely nothing (not even a bat or ball was there when he started) to winning a national title, 7 CWS appearances and winning more games than any other program during thos 36 years. (I believe he is #3 in career wins)

Some people don't like him as he is gruff and can be abrasive. Not to mention, there is a little bit of baggage that comes with him. The fact remains, the guy is a winner. He is an organizer and he can raise money and expectations like no other.

He is 67 I believe and he still wants to coach. I would think with his ego, he would like nothing more than to take a program and put them on the map to prove that he is still one of the best coaches in the country. I have no doubt that Gene would do it too. The man is a machine. He might ruffle a few feathers along the way but he might be a great fit to bring in and elevate the program for 3-5 years and set it up for someone to come in.

I know I'd hire him even though, based on personal experience, I don't particularly like him that well. But I do respect the hell out of the man.
 
Originally posted by terrehawk:

Dahm made around $100,000 last year and I believe Heller made around $75,000. Not sure with camps etc. how that figures into their income. Iowa would be a better financial situation for a coach.

I will say that Indiana State could really be viewed as a better job, for quite a few reasons.

1. Weather. Big difference between Iowa weather and S. Indiana weather. (especially with having a turf infield to work out on.) Lot's more opportunities for getting outside in the winter months in Indiana than in Iowa most years. Not to mention, spring time is much more cooperative and mild. Decided advantage for ISU.


2. MVC vs Big 10. Most years, I would take the MVC over the Big 10 competition wise. Not to mention that many of the MVC cities are generally better climate wise than the Big 10 schools are. The Big 10 adding Nebraska certainly helped in both of those aspects some but I still think the baseball in the Valley is generally better than the Big 10 most years. The weather is the big factor here to me. It's close but factor in the weather/geography and the MVC wins.

3. Location, location, location. Sure, U of Iowa is now the only D1 program in the state since UNI dropped baseball and Iowa State hasn't had it in quite a few years now. The state of Iowa, while holding it's own for a state of their size, doesn't produce a ton of D1 talent year in and year out. Indiana, on the other hand, has a pretty good talent base.

Not to mention, the Wabash Valley produces quite a few homegrown kids and ISU typically gets a player or 2 every year from basically right in town. Definite advantage for ISU here. This is a very big factor.

4. Facilities. Indiana State has better baseball facilities. From the field (sport turf vs grass), to the stadium (ISU's recent changes trump Iowa's pretty easily) . Iowa doesn't have the use of an anytime, indoor hitting facility. They are at the mercy of the football program. I haven't seen ISU's but I've seen pictures and it seems ISU has a definite advantage here.

Iowa has made some promises as of late that they will be building a new baseball and softball facility and will be building a facility for indoor practices but the money hasn't been secured for this as of yet. I would guess it will be 6-10 years before these changes would be realized.

Therefore, I have to give the nod to ISU.

5. Travel: If Iowa wants to play another D1 program, it has to travel to Minnesota, (4 1/2 hrs) Nebraska (4 1/2 hrs) or Illinois (3 3/4 hrs) Western Illinois 2 1/4 hr) Missouri (4 hours), Northwestern (3 3/4 hrs) Bradley is 2 1/4 hrs....you get the point, there just isn't as much opportunity for playing close teams. ISU has a definite advantage here as they have numerous programs within an hour and a half, quite a few under 3-4 hours and can be in the "South" in a relatively short time comparatively to escape weather. Great location from that stand point.

6. Budget. See my first paragraph on salaries. Advantage certainly goes to Iowa. In shear dollars for the program, I am guessing that Iowa has an advantage here. By how much, I am not sure. Obviously, that is a big deal. So I'll give the advantage to Iowa. In particular, if Iowa were to build a winner, they would have a much larger war chest to draw from with big time football and basketball money to draw from. Hawkeye fans are great fans when you win. If ISU wins, it's supported probably a bit more than when not but for the most part, "it is what it is". Current advantage Iowa. HUGE potential advantage Iowa. (the argument could be made that Iowa hasn't committed much of anything compared to ISU lately though when you look at the facilities.

7. Community and administrative support. Support wise, ISU has had a much bigger advantage from it's administration as evidenced by the facility upgrades and the fact that ISU will be hosting the MVC tournament next year. Prettyman has been pretty vocal about his support and shown it. Barta at Iowa? Meh....Sure, he dumped Dahm and one could argue that he is trying to support baseball.......Until you put $ where your mouth is....BS.

Indiana State's community seems to do a pretty good job of supporting baseball. Sure, it's not to the level of Wichita but it's not bad. I have to give ISU the edge here as well. I think it is somewhat like the budget situation though....If Iowa built it....they would probably come. At least probably better than what Indiana State's community would be able to do. But that's probably a guess..

So, overall, I think ISU is probably a better situation than Iowa. Heller being from Iowa would obviously be the big draw for him. Baseball isn't as popular in Iowa as it is in Indiana.

those rebuilding (or in this case, BUILDING) jobs are sometimes very intriguing. The key will be the level of comittment to facilities that Iowa is able to give. I just don't see them being able to have anything in place within 5 years. Maybe they should have extended Dahm's contract another year and got closer to getting $ for facilities and it would be more attractive. I'm kind of worried that Iowa could put themselves in a bad position here if they make the wrong hire (because they have to settle).

It sounds like they haven't even called the Iowa Western Coach. Regardless of whether you intend to hire the guy, he still deserves a call.

This post was edited on 6/5 5:54 PM by terrehawk
Not that big a difference in weather between southeastern Iowa and southern Indiana. I'd say that's a wash. Other than a population advantage, the talent difference between states isn't as much as you think---and that even with the state of Iowa's crazy insistence on playing high school ball in the summer. How many really good Iowa high school players have opted for schools other than Iowa? Count 'em--- if Iowa could have landed them, they'd still be playing this season. For all his struggles & gross underachievement on the field, Dahm did land some pretty nice recruiting classes. But he really never took advantage of some pretty obvious Iowa talent. He didn't even seen to try in most cases. Iowa does have easy geographic access to large population centers in Illinois & Missouri. So the excuse that they don't have access to the same talent has simply never held water.

Iowa's overall athletic budget dwarfs ISU's by comparison, so what Iowa could potentially put into baseball dwarfs what ISU could as well. Of course, you did say as much. Well, not really. But kinda. Iowa could obviously build a program that could completely outclass one like Indiana State's. The question is...will they?
 
Originally posted by cruhawk:



Not that big a difference in weather between southeastern Iowa and southern Indiana. I'd say that's a wash.

Actually, there is quite a difference in weather between Iowa City and Terre Haute. Just looking at numbers might not seem to be a big difference, but it is. When you are talking "AVERAGE" temperatures, and a difference of 5-7 degrees that is very significant.

It also means quite a lot when it comes to snow accumulation and stretches of days on end that are not conducive to getting outside. It also impacts the time of recovery for playing surfaces after a bad stretch.

Combine that with the advantage mentioned earlier of having turf and it's big. But the outfield portion is not turf so that recovery time is crucial. Obviously, if Iowa were to get a turf infield surface, it would certainly help them. I saw where Jack Dahm said they only had 5 out door practices this year. I guarantee that ISU had quite a few more than that. But then again, ISU also has an indoor facility to use anytime they want. Iowa is at the mercy of football and their players can't just hit anytime they want. that is less of an advantage than just about every college program in the state of Iowa at all levels.


Another factor would be the winds. Iowa is a very windy state. Terre Haute is much more shielded from the wind. Yes, they have a lot of wind but not like Iowa. I've lived both places.

Average High temp:

November is 50 in IC and 55 in TH (+5)
December is 35 in IC and 42 in TH (+7)
January is 32 in IC and 37 in TH (+5)
February is 37 in IC and 43 in TH (+6)
March is 59 in IC and 54 in TH (+5)

Here is a map I found. (click on it and it will enlarge) You can see that TH is quite a bit further south than IC. There's a reason teams from the north go south. Teams in the Dakotas and Minnesota pass THROUGH Iowa to go play in Kansas City (for example) all the time. That few hours makes a big difference.

TripRoute_M.jpg






Originally posted by cruhawk:



Iowa does have easy geographic access to large population centers in Illinois & Missouri. So the excuse that they don't have access to the same talent has simply never held water.

I agree that they have some access to larger population centers. However, it isn't the same as the population centers surrounding many other programs in the upper mid west. Including Indiana State where Heller is at now. Distance and temperatures are a big issue. Iowa isn't going to get many kids to come north where a program such as Indiana State might (or at least have a better chance) because they happen to be south just far enough to make a difference. (not to mention they currently have better facilities) and if the kid is coming south to go to Iowa, he likely has other options that are competing with Iowa and they are likely a little warmer and currently a better situation. Indiana State has a better chance with Michigan and Ohio and even Chicago than Iowa does. Iowa has Minnesota, the Dakotas and Wisconsin. I'd rather have ISU's geography.

Iowa just does not have access to the same # of talented players as teams at or near their latitude and it is just a harder sell. Now, if iowa builds the facilities, it would be a different story for those few talented kids that Iowa would have access to. Until that point, it isn't happening and you are just speculating. Sure, it's fun to do and it's ok to dream.

I do agree that if you make the committment you can get kids. But being in the north simply has so many disadvantages in order for them to build a consistent power in the upper midwest. They can build a good solid program that has a good run from time to time but it would be very difficult to sustain above just being "solid". Just look around. Who has done it? Nebraska? they had a brief run but are pretty average. Ohio State? They've been decent but not great. Michigan and Michigan State have had a few good years. but none have been able to sustain it. It's just too hard to consistently get the best kids that can otherwise go to a big warmer place to play.

Minnesota has probably been as consistent as any program in the Midwest but wouldn't be classified as a power. High school baseball in Minnesota is very popular and a pretty big deal there. They have a large population.

All of those places except Nebraska have really large populations in close proximities to pull from.

Again, I do believe Iowa COULD exceed the level that some other programs are at, including the program where Rick Heller is currently at. (I said that in my initial post) But, they are not right at that level right now and are quite a ways from exceeding that. That is the reason I said ISU is currently a better situation. It's not just a couple issues either and it would be quite a few years before they would be there.

I would love to see Iowa become an upper tier Big 10 program. It COULD happen without getting a large upgrade in facilities
but those chances are pretty slim before that happens and it's not going to happen for at least 5 years IMO.

One of the likely reasons Dahm is viewed as underachieving despite having some good recruiting classes can go right back to the facilities issue. I'm not talking about aesthetics either. The bases are 90 feet and the rubber is 60 feet 6 inches every where you go. It's having the ability to hit year round and the ability to have defensive practices year round or get out outside often. Iowa just doesn't have that right now.


One other factor, as Rick Heller told me a few years ago, is that with 11.7 total scholarships and 35 man roster limitation, you just cannot afford to make a mistake on a kid anymore. The sport is just too competitive now and these ridiculous limitations make it harder. (You used to be able to have tryouts and keep 40-50 kids or more practicing year round.)

Generally, it's not necessarily the top 5-6 kids that are holding programs back, it's the rest of the roster. In midwest states, you just don't have the inventory to draw from and a handful of commitments that don't work out can kill you.


This post was edited on 6/8 1:54 PM by terrehawk
 
Well, Iowa announced their new hire today. The managed to bring in Heller; I was really hoping this would be the guy, as I think he's definitely the right guy for the job. I'm excited to see what he can do with the already-available talent, as this year's team was very young and has a lot of potential.

http://thegazette.com/2013/07/12/iowa-tabs-heller-as-new-baseball-coach/
 
That certainly put some perspective on whether or not Iowa was--or could be--a better program than Indiana State's. It should be, and Heller is a coach who should make it so. Obviously, he thinks so...
 
Was that before or after 4 or 5 coaches turned down the Iowa job sighting lack of commitment and Barta not even present for some of the interviews?


You are trying a bit too hard.

This says a lot more about Rick being a native iowan and iowa being his dream job, having spent all but the last 4 yrs of his life/career here. It makes sense for him to come back. Logical move for him.

I am elated to have Rick back in iowa. I've known him for a long time and he is a solid coach and person. Iowa is a great fit for him. Hopefully, iowa steps up and puts the financial commitment behind the program. If they do, Rick will get them going.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
No. You said yourself how much better the ISU program was than Iowa's (at least currently), and how hard it would be to lure Heller given that advantage. Iowa being his "dream job" is true, but it wouldn't be nearly enough by itself to cause him to want to move. The only way this could happen is if Heller thought it would be worth it. Which means, in addition to a healthy raise over what he was getting at ISU (Prettyman said as much himself), significant upgrades in the entire program, including facilities.

Do you know for sure that "4 or 5 coaches turned down the Iowa job citing lack of commitment" or are you just parrotting what conventional media was saying? There are those who think the job became Heller's to lose and other candidates withdrew for that reason.

So far, I haven't had to try too hard to refute just about everything you've stated...
This post was edited on 7/14 4:14 PM by cruhawk
 
Below I've pasted my orignal post. I never said "how hard it would be to lure Heller to Iowa" or that Iowa wouldn't be able to get Heller to come back home. I was simply showing that that ISU was a better situation currently. Period. That is still the case and will be a better situation in most areas except financial (which was in my first sentence) until the point that facilities are built (not just promises)

Now, the one item that you tried to refute about the weather difference between the 2 locations, was easily disproven. Nothing else you have posted anywhere refutes anything. I guess you tried to dispute the recruiting disadvantage Iowa has but that's not even worthy of responding to again.



One thing that was incorrect in my post original post (below) is Dahm's salary. Dahm reportedly made $150,000 in 2012 which was the lowest salary of ANY B1G coach.

Obviously that is much greater than what I had originally been told ($100,000) Heller reportedly made $75,000 last year at ISU. With the other coaches, Hendrickson from St Louis U, specifically, turning down the job, Heller was in a great negotiating position. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was given $150,000 or more. (If UI is truly committed to baseball, they would make their new hire at least middle of the pack in salary wouldn't they?)

Even if Iowa doesn't make the commitment financially to upgrade facilities, it would be hard for someone not to come home for twice the salary they are currently making.

Again, it's not a big surprise that Heller took the job. Double the salary, dream job, home. Yep, it makes sense and I've said this repeatedly.

Lastly, coaches don't withdraw their name from consideration if they think it someone else is in the driver's seat. That's assinine.

If I had to make an educated guess, many of these coaches had no true intention of taking the job without a big committment on facilities and were more than likely using Iowa as a bargaining chip for enhancing their current contracts.

Throw in the fact that Barta reportedly wasn't even involved in several of the interviews and this whole process was an embarrassment for Iowa. Iowa is fortunate that Heller didn't tell them to shove it after the way he was treated the first time around 10 years ago.


Originally posted by terrehawk:

Dahm made around $100,000 last year and I believe Heller made around $75,000. Not sure with camps etc. how that figures into their income. Iowa would be a better financial situation for a coach.

I will say that Indiana State could really be viewed as a better job, for quite a few reasons.

1. Weather. Big difference between Iowa weather and S. Indiana weather. (especially with having a turf infield to work out on.) Lot's more opportunities for getting outside in the winter months in Indiana than in Iowa most years. Not to mention, spring time is much more cooperative and mild. Decided advantage for ISU.


2. MVC vs Big 10. Most years, I would take the MVC over the Big 10 competition wise. Not to mention that many of the MVC cities are generally better climate wise than the Big 10 schools are. The Big 10 adding Nebraska certainly helped in both of those aspects some but I still think the baseball in the Valley is generally better than the Big 10 most years. The weather is the big factor here to me. It's close but factor in the weather/geography and the MVC wins.

3. Location, location, location. Sure, U of Iowa is now the only D1 program in the state since UNI dropped baseball and Iowa State hasn't had it in quite a few years now. The state of Iowa, while holding it's own for a state of their size, doesn't produce a ton of D1 talent year in and year out. Indiana, on the other hand, has a pretty good talent base.

Not to mention, the Wabash Valley produces quite a few homegrown kids and ISU typically gets a player or 2 every year from basically right in town. Definite advantage for ISU here. This is a very big factor.

4. Facilities. Indiana State has better baseball facilities. From the field (sport turf vs grass), to the stadium (ISU's recent changes trump Iowa's pretty easily) . Iowa doesn't have the use of an anytime, indoor hitting facility. They are at the mercy of the football program. I haven't seen ISU's but I've seen pictures and it seems ISU has a definite advantage here.

Iowa has made some promises as of late that they will be building a new baseball and softball facility and will be building a facility for indoor practices but the money hasn't been secured for this as of yet. I would guess it will be 6-10 years before these changes would be realized.

Therefore, I have to give the nod to ISU.

5. Travel: If Iowa wants to play another D1 program, it has to travel to Minnesota, (4 1/2 hrs) Nebraska (4 1/2 hrs) or Illinois (3 3/4 hrs) Western Illinois 2 1/4 hr) Missouri (4 hours), Northwestern (3 3/4 hrs) Bradley is 2 1/4 hrs....you get the point, there just isn't as much opportunity for playing close teams. ISU has a definite advantage here as they have numerous programs within an hour and a half, quite a few under 3-4 hours and can be in the "South" in a relatively short time comparatively to escape weather. Great location from that stand point.

6. Budget. See my first paragraph on salaries. Advantage certainly goes to Iowa. In shear dollars for the program, I am guessing that Iowa has an advantage here. By how much, I am not sure. Obviously, that is a big deal. So I'll give the advantage to Iowa. In particular, if Iowa were to build a winner, they would have a much larger war chest to draw from with big time football and basketball money to draw from. Hawkeye fans are great fans when you win. If ISU wins, it's supported probably a bit more than when not but for the most part, "it is what it is". Current advantage Iowa. HUGE potential advantage Iowa. (the argument could be made that Iowa hasn't committed much of anything compared to ISU lately though when you look at the facilities.

7. Community and administrative support. Support wise, ISU has had a much bigger advantage from it's administration as evidenced by the facility upgrades and the fact that ISU will be hosting the MVC tournament next year. Prettyman has been pretty vocal about his support and shown it. Barta at Iowa? Meh....Sure, he dumped Dahm and one could argue that he is trying to support baseball.......Until you put $ where your mouth is....BS.

Indiana State's community seems to do a pretty good job of supporting baseball. Sure, it's not to the level of Wichita but it's not bad. I have to give ISU the edge here as well. I think it is somewhat like the budget situation though....If Iowa built it....they would probably come. At least probably better than what Indiana State's community would be able to do. But that's probably a guess..

So, overall, I think ISU is probably a better situation than Iowa. Heller being from Iowa would obviously be the big draw for him. Baseball isn't as popular in Iowa as it is in Indiana.

those rebuilding (or in this case, BUILDING) jobs are sometimes very intriguing. The key will be the level of comittment to facilities that Iowa is able to give. I just don't see them being able to have anything in place within 5 years. Maybe they should have extended Dahm's contract another year and got closer to getting $ for facilities and it would be more attractive. I'm kind of worried that Iowa could put themselves in a bad position here if they make the wrong hire (because they have to settle).

It sounds like they haven't even called the Iowa Western Coach. Regardless of whether you intend to hire the guy, he still deserves a call.

This post was edited on 6/5 5:54 PM by terrehawk
 
Originally posted by terrehawk:
Below I've pasted my orignal post. I never said "how hard it would be to lure Heller to Iowa" or that Iowa wouldn't be able to get Heller to come back home. I was simply showing that that ISU was a better situation currently. Period. That is still the case and will be a better situation in most areas except financial (which was in my first sentence) until the point that facilities are built (not just promises)

Now, the one item that you tried to refute about the weather difference between the 2 locations, was easily disproven. Nothing else you have posted anywhere refutes anything. I guess you tried to dispute the recruiting disadvantage Iowa has but that's not even worthy of responding to again.



One thing that was incorrect in my post original post (below) is Dahm's salary. Dahm reportedly made $150,000 in 2012 which was the lowest salary of ANY B1G coach.

Obviously that is much greater than what I had originally been told ($100,000) Heller reportedly made $75,000 last year at ISU. With the other coaches, Hendrickson from St Louis U, specifically, turning down the job, Heller was in a great negotiating position. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was given $150,000 or more. (If UI is truly committed to baseball, they would make their new hire at least middle of the pack in salary wouldn't they?)

Even if Iowa doesn't make the commitment financially to upgrade facilities, it would be hard for someone not to come home for twice the salary they are currently making.

Again, it's not a big surprise that Heller took the job. Double the salary, dream job, home. Yep, it makes sense and I've said this repeatedly.

Lastly, coaches don't withdraw their name from consideration if they think it someone else is in the driver's seat. That's assinine.

If I had to make an educated guess, many of these coaches had no true intention of taking the job without a big committment on facilities and were more than likely using Iowa as a bargaining chip for enhancing their current contracts.

Throw in the fact that Barta reportedly wasn't even involved in several of the interviews and this whole process was an embarrassment for Iowa. Iowa is fortunate that Heller didn't tell them to shove it after the way he was treated the first time around 10 years ago.



Originally posted by terrehawk:

Dahm made around $100,000 last year and I believe Heller made around $75,000. Not sure with camps etc. how that figures into their income. Iowa would be a better financial situation for a coach.

I will say that Indiana State could really be viewed as a better job, for quite a few reasons.

1. Weather. Big difference between Iowa weather and S. Indiana weather. (especially with having a turf infield to work out on.) Lot's more opportunities for getting outside in the winter months in Indiana than in Iowa most years. Not to mention, spring time is much more cooperative and mild. Decided advantage for ISU.


2. MVC vs Big 10. Most years, I would take the MVC over the Big 10 competition wise. Not to mention that many of the MVC cities are generally better climate wise than the Big 10 schools are. The Big 10 adding Nebraska certainly helped in both of those aspects some but I still think the baseball in the Valley is generally better than the Big 10 most years. The weather is the big factor here to me. It's close but factor in the weather/geography and the MVC wins.

3. Location, location, location. Sure, U of Iowa is now the only D1 program in the state since UNI dropped baseball and Iowa State hasn't had it in quite a few years now. The state of Iowa, while holding it's own for a state of their size, doesn't produce a ton of D1 talent year in and year out. Indiana, on the other hand, has a pretty good talent base.

Not to mention, the Wabash Valley produces quite a few homegrown kids and ISU typically gets a player or 2 every year from basically right in town. Definite advantage for ISU here. This is a very big factor.

4. Facilities. Indiana State has better baseball facilities. From the field (sport turf vs grass), to the stadium (ISU's recent changes trump Iowa's pretty easily) . Iowa doesn't have the use of an anytime, indoor hitting facility. They are at the mercy of the football program. I haven't seen ISU's but I've seen pictures and it seems ISU has a definite advantage here.

Iowa has made some promises as of late that they will be building a new baseball and softball facility and will be building a facility for indoor practices but the money hasn't been secured for this as of yet. I would guess it will be 6-10 years before these changes would be realized.

Therefore, I have to give the nod to ISU.

5. Travel: If Iowa wants to play another D1 program, it has to travel to Minnesota, (4 1/2 hrs) Nebraska (4 1/2 hrs) or Illinois (3 3/4 hrs) Western Illinois 2 1/4 hr) Missouri (4 hours), Northwestern (3 3/4 hrs) Bradley is 2 1/4 hrs....you get the point, there just isn't as much opportunity for playing close teams. ISU has a definite advantage here as they have numerous programs within an hour and a half, quite a few under 3-4 hours and can be in the "South" in a relatively short time comparatively to escape weather. Great location from that stand point.

6. Budget. See my first paragraph on salaries. Advantage certainly goes to Iowa. In shear dollars for the program, I am guessing that Iowa has an advantage here. By how much, I am not sure. Obviously, that is a big deal. So I'll give the advantage to Iowa. In particular, if Iowa were to build a winner, they would have a much larger war chest to draw from with big time football and basketball money to draw from. Hawkeye fans are great fans when you win. If ISU wins, it's supported probably a bit more than when not but for the most part, "it is what it is". Current advantage Iowa. HUGE potential advantage Iowa. (the argument could be made that Iowa hasn't committed much of anything compared to ISU lately though when you look at the facilities.

7. Community and administrative support. Support wise, ISU has had a much bigger advantage from it's administration as evidenced by the facility upgrades and the fact that ISU will be hosting the MVC tournament next year. Prettyman has been pretty vocal about his support and shown it. Barta at Iowa? Meh....Sure, he dumped Dahm and one could argue that he is trying to support baseball.......Until you put $ where your mouth is....BS.

Indiana State's community seems to do a pretty good job of supporting baseball. Sure, it's not to the level of Wichita but it's not bad. I have to give ISU the edge here as well. I think it is somewhat like the budget situation though....If Iowa built it....they would probably come. At least probably better than what Indiana State's community would be able to do. But that's probably a guess..

So, overall, I think ISU is probably a better situation than Iowa. Heller being from Iowa would obviously be the big draw for him. Baseball isn't as popular in Iowa as it is in Indiana.

those rebuilding (or in this case, BUILDING) jobs are sometimes very intriguing. The key will be the level of comittment to facilities that Iowa is able to give. I just don't see them being able to have anything in place within 5 years. Maybe they should have extended Dahm's contract another year and got closer to getting $ for facilities and it would be more attractive. I'm kind of worried that Iowa could put themselves in a bad position here if they make the wrong hire (because they have to settle).

It sounds like they haven't even called the Iowa Western Coach. Regardless of whether you intend to hire the guy, he still deserves a call.


This post was edited on 6/5 5:54 PM by terrehawk
Sorry bud, but you didn't disprove any comment I made about the (supposed) weather differences between Iowa City and TH. Five degrees difference on average? You can't possibly be serious about that being an advantage of one program over another. If we were talking about the difference between Iowa City and schools in California, Arizona, Texas, or Florida, that would be different. Spring may come a week or two earlier on average in TH, but that is not a game changer. Southern Iowa and southern Indiana are similar enough climates where a good player isn't going to pick one over the other just because of weather. End of story.

Furthermore, you've shown no proof of any supposed inherent recruiting advantages that ISU has over Iowa. You've stated an opinion, nothing more. They both have similar geographic access to similar players in a similar area of the country. ISU is not a southern school, much as you'd like to make it sound like it is. It is a small midwestern university. Any advantages that the ISU baseball program has over Iowa's have only to do with the program itself, and the commitment that ISU has made to it (financial support, facilities, etc). Those differences are changeable, and I do believe that Iowa will make those changes as a part of hiring Heller. If they weren't committed to making substantive structural changes (and soon), there would have been no reason to fire Dahm and hire a coach like Heller. And without the prospect of those changes, Heller almost certainly would not have given up his job at ISU. With the way things were going for him there, it would taken more than a pay raise and the "dream job" to dislodge him. He knew that Iowa athletics had deep pockets, and that the adminstration simply had to make the decision to focus more on baseball for the program to succeed. And he wanted to be a part of that. Without that promise, he wouldn't have come. Now it's up to Barta & co to keep their (very publically stated) promises.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT